Jump to content


oracions and dasal??


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#1 dagitab

dagitab

    Mag-aaral (Student)

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 70 posts
  • Nationality:filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):fma student, avid fan of fma

Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:02 AM

Just asking, old practitioners of fma often say that mysticism was a part of fma? But why do the present practitioners of the art has know no any dasal and oracions? Where did the art of mysticism go? What was the cause of itís lose?

#2 bayani

bayani

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,862 posts
  • Location:Rochester New York
  • Nationality:Pinoy on the Flip side

Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:10 AM

Because it is a very sacred part of the art reserved only for the closest and most trusted students, actually almost handed down to family.

Many also do not believe in such practices which is needed. And malas daw to be involved in this.

I quit when I heard no liquor and celibacy may be required blink.gif

On a more serious note: Would you not think this has any link to the "dark side" or work of the devil , evil entities involved, bad spirits or what have you? Why can't you just fight using your skill? Why cheat and use outside influences or powers?

I get the freaked out with the whole kulam, oracion thing with all the latin prayers and candles with statues, parang voodoo and santeria na yan eh.

#3 eome

eome

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Location:Imus, Cavite
  • Interests:None
  • Nationality:Filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):Classical Escrima ng Binondo at Luneta

Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:59 AM

So do you believe in orasyon bayani? and if not, how do you see the famous people who rely on these?
If anyone wants to take my reputation, he will have to fight me with a sword - Grandmaster Antonio Ilustrisimo, 1979

#4 bayani

bayani

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,862 posts
  • Location:Rochester New York
  • Nationality:Pinoy on the Flip side

Posted 09 October 2007 - 11:52 AM

To an extent yes, that's cause I have been with people who use it and can't explain some of the things I saw them do but I am not totaly sold on it because I now live in  a western society and am not open to it. Not like in other countries like ours where we are open and sensitive to such experiences.  Power of belief in your  belief systems.

As for people who use them, well the ones I witnessed were used for healing not for fighting. As for using it for fighting I preffer if the fights were won on their own merritt and walang dayaan kase, wala akong amulet sad.gif ...well I do but i don't believe or rely on it and thus feel it won't work for that very reason.

I have seen the oraciones and were given some to use as well but it also required certain practices that I did not keep up with but I am ok with it, I am not comfortable with the whole scene.

#5 nosyac

nosyac

    All Filipino BLADE Society

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,972 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:Computers...
  • Nationality:Cebuano (Filipino)
  • Group Affiliation(s):Filipino Metal Alchemist (FMA)

Posted 09 October 2007 - 03:26 PM

From time to time there are things that are unexplained.  Often times these shamans are hard to find and probably away from public eyes or neighbors.  Sometimes I believe in them and sometimes it's easy to spot a fake.

#6 dan

dan

    Dan

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,058 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Theology, Polticis, sports, outings and ngo cho kun kung fu.
  • Nationality:Canadian-Tsinoy
  • Group Affiliation(s):Wuzuquan, BC Wu Shu, Conservative Party, BC Liberal Party

Posted 09 October 2007 - 05:46 PM

QUOTE (dagitab @ Oct 9 2007, 03:02 AM)
Just asking, old practitioners of fma often say that mysticism was a part of fma? But why do the present practitioners of the art has know no any dasal and oracions? Where did the art of mysticism go? What was the cause of itís lose?


Dasal and oracion is part of martial art, one have to differentiate between the evil and the good side of dasal and oracion. Many TMA clubs have altars for serious martial artist to meditate and pray, pray for calmness, pray for courage, pray for protection and mostly pray to have the wisdom to distinguised between right and wrong.

In the west it is less relevant because IMO the culture is more center on selflessness or individualism, just like the great Cassius Clay battle cry would be " I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest" although later on he will convert to Islam and change his name to Mohamed Ali he will still put himself above God and continue to claim " I'm the greatest".
Every technique has a counter technique

#7 eome

eome

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Location:Imus, Cavite
  • Interests:None
  • Nationality:Filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):Classical Escrima ng Binondo at Luneta

Posted 10 October 2007 - 01:43 AM

what are your take on amulets being bought? will it loss its effectivity  meaning should only be given instead of being purchased?
If anyone wants to take my reputation, he will have to fight me with a sword - Grandmaster Antonio Ilustrisimo, 1979

#8 Sitbatan

Sitbatan

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,664 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pangasinan
  • Nationality:Fil-Am
  • Group Affiliation(s):Filipino Fighting Arts International

Posted 10 October 2007 - 03:30 AM

it is real...  all the physical strength, skill, and cunning cannot defeat one who is physically skilled, who is also spiritually versed.

magick still exists.... only those who are sterilized with self-righteous logic do not believe in it.  even the highest of Illuminati practice black  mysticism...why? because it is real and it works.

magick comes in different forms, in different cultures and time periods.

orascion is a type of magick....

in silat we also have our "magick"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbrMk6fGAoY


if you do not believe in kulam or hexes, at least learn the counter....
It is reported that a man came to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) and asked, "O Messenger of Allah! What should I do if someone comes to me with the intention of taking my property?'' He replied, "Do not hand it over to him.'' The man further asked, "What should I do if he fights me?'' The Messenger of Allah answered , "Then fight him.'' "What would be my position in the Hereafter if he killed me?'' The Messenger of Allah replied, "In that case you are a martyr.'' The man asked: "What if I killed him?'' The Messenger of Allah replied, ďHe will be in the Hell-fire.Ē (Reported by Muslim)
http://sitbatan.blogspot.com/

#9 sangot

sangot

    El Komedyante

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,889 posts
  • Group Affiliation(s):"Laging nasa Likod"

Posted 10 October 2007 - 08:45 AM

QUOTE (eome @ Oct 10 2007, 10:43 AM)
what are your take on amulets being bought? will it loss its effectivity  meaning should only be given instead of being purchased?


should be given...kaya magbigay ka na  biggrin.gif
Manong Sangot
"Laging Takot"

#10 sangot

sangot

    El Komedyante

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,889 posts
  • Group Affiliation(s):"Laging nasa Likod"

Posted 10 October 2007 - 08:50 AM

I came from a family of Oracion practitioners, i would to remain silence
about it...but since you open up the thread...as a brother in the art
i feel that i have the duty to share my knowledge with anyone interested

you can depoist 100USD in my account
please email me and attached deposit slip...me gayuma rin ako

Datu Sangot
Email: datu_sangot@yahoo.com
Manong Sangot
"Laging Takot"

#11 eome

eome

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Location:Imus, Cavite
  • Interests:None
  • Nationality:Filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):Classical Escrima ng Binondo at Luneta

Posted 10 October 2007 - 10:19 AM

hehehe
If anyone wants to take my reputation, he will have to fight me with a sword - Grandmaster Antonio Ilustrisimo, 1979

#12 russel

russel

    Mag-aaral (Student)

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 82 posts

Posted 10 October 2007 - 10:30 AM

the story behind amulets losing its powers because it is bought is probably true. When one loads a certain amulet, the one giving it life basically can provide some form of restrictions (i.e. losing power for evil usage or falling into another hand aside from the intended receipient).

#13 nosyac

nosyac

    All Filipino BLADE Society

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,972 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:Computers...
  • Nationality:Cebuano (Filipino)
  • Group Affiliation(s):Filipino Metal Alchemist (FMA)

Posted 10 October 2007 - 01:06 PM

QUOTE (sangot @ Oct 10 2007, 04:50 AM)
I came from a family of Oracion practitioners, i would to remain silence
about it...but since you open up the thread...as a brother in the art
i feel that i have the duty to share my knowledge with anyone interested

you can depoist 100USD in my account
please email me and attached deposit slip...me gayuma rin ako

Datu Sangot
Email: datu_sangot@yahoo.com


Negosyante ka talaga sangot!  biggrin.gif

#14 Kilabot

Kilabot

    Baguhan (Newbie)

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
  • Nationality:Filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):n/a

Posted 10 October 2007 - 01:31 PM

There was a scene I saw on Philippine TV before regarding the group "Haring Bakal". Most of their members were from the military and they actually believed that inserting amulets inside their skin would actually save them from danger. There was even a scene when they took out an itak to hack the arms, legs, and torso but no blood was found. I think they were also featured in the documentary Mind, Body, Kickass moves. Is anyone here a member of Haring Bakal and could testify to this?

#15 shugyo

shugyo

    Dalubhasa (Expert)

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 119 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:EATING, SLEEPING& DRINKING...
  • Nationality:filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):none

Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:46 PM

most po ng mga amulets at talisman na makikita sa quiapo ay buhay na. kung marunong ang tumitingin ay mararamdaman niya ito.  dahil karamihan sa mga ito ay may nagko-konsegra na bago pa nila ito ialok.

pero ingat lang sa pagpili at pagbigkas ng mga orasyon na hindi nyo alam ang ibig sabihin. baka po pacto na pala ang pinapasok niyo... o minsan sadyang hindi sinama sa orasyon ang liave nito upang hindi gumana sa inyo.
UT IN OMNIBUS GLORIFICATUR DEUS!!!

#16 dyak_stone

dyak_stone

    Mandirigma (Warrior)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 398 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Metro Manila
  • Nationality:Filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):Kali Arnis Martial Arts Organization (KAMAO)

Posted 10 October 2007 - 10:47 PM

QUOTE (Kilabot @ Oct 10 2007, 09:31 PM)
I think they were also featured in the documentary Mind, Body, Kickass moves.
I've seen a demo of Haring Bakal firsthand. No camera tricks there. And although I do believe that their faith in their ways may save their lives when the time comes, in their demos I think the fact that no cuts or blood can be seen has as much to do with how the hacks are done, as with their anting-anting.

With regards to why present practitioners not have any dasal, orasyon, or anting-anting, what makes you believe that there are none? You never know, maybe they're just very discreet about it.

For current proponents, I've seen (also in Mind, Body, and Kickass Moves) that GT Gaje carries anting-anting.

#17 eome

eome

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Location:Imus, Cavite
  • Interests:None
  • Nationality:Filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):Classical Escrima ng Binondo at Luneta

Posted 11 October 2007 - 02:36 AM

QUOTE (shugyo @ Oct 11 2007, 05:46 AM)
most po ng mga amulets at talisman na makikita sa quiapo ay buhay na. kung marunong ang tumitingin ay mararamdaman niya ito.  dahil karamihan sa mga ito ay may nagko-konsegra na bago pa nila ito ialok.

pero ingat lang sa pagpili at pagbigkas ng mga orasyon na hindi nyo alam ang ibig sabihin. baka po pacto na pala ang pinapasok niyo... o minsan sadyang hindi sinama sa orasyon ang liave nito upang hindi gumana sa inyo.




whats pacto and liave? thanks
If anyone wants to take my reputation, he will have to fight me with a sword - Grandmaster Antonio Ilustrisimo, 1979

#18 shugyo

shugyo

    Dalubhasa (Expert)

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 119 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:EATING, SLEEPING& DRINKING...
  • Nationality:filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):none

Posted 11 October 2007 - 06:58 AM

QUOTE (eome @ Oct 11 2007, 09:36 AM)
QUOTE (shugyo @ Oct 11 2007, 05:46 AM)
most po ng mga amulets at talisman na makikita sa quiapo ay buhay na. kung marunong ang tumitingin ay mararamdaman niya ito.  dahil karamihan sa mga ito ay may nagko-konsegra na bago pa nila ito ialok.

pero ingat lang sa pagpili at pagbigkas ng mga orasyon na hindi nyo alam ang ibig sabihin. baka po pacto na pala ang pinapasok niyo... o minsan sadyang hindi sinama sa orasyon ang liave nito upang hindi gumana sa inyo.




whats pacto and liave? thanks


ang pacto ay ang kasunduan ng antingero sa espirito, marami po itong klase  i.e.  laging kapos o hikahos sa pera.

ang liave naman ay ang security code ng orasyon maaring tama ang orasyon mo ngunit kung walang liave hindi po ito gagana kahit anong gawin mo.

sabi po ng matatanda ang pinaka-mataas na klase ng cabal ay ang cabal na pahiwa. dahil kadalasan ay pataga o pasaksak lang ang bisa nito.
UT IN OMNIBUS GLORIFICATUR DEUS!!!

#19 eome

eome

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Location:Imus, Cavite
  • Interests:None
  • Nationality:Filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):Classical Escrima ng Binondo at Luneta

Posted 11 October 2007 - 11:01 AM

Ano difference ng pacto sa amulet na kinargahan ng salita ng Diyos? or is it practically the same?

Is there an amulet directlly charged from the word of God from your point of view shugyo? thanks.
If anyone wants to take my reputation, he will have to fight me with a sword - Grandmaster Antonio Ilustrisimo, 1979

#20 Raul

Raul

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,540 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Nationality:Filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):Klasikal Ilustrisimo Eskrima

Posted 11 October 2007 - 01:53 PM

All of those who fought to the death have orascions. If you don't have any, you will utter one on your first death match.
Your Acts reveal What You Know and Who You are, all three are one and the same.

Klasikali on Facebook

#21 nosyac

nosyac

    All Filipino BLADE Society

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,972 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:Computers...
  • Nationality:Cebuano (Filipino)
  • Group Affiliation(s):Filipino Metal Alchemist (FMA)

Posted 11 October 2007 - 03:10 PM

Young child with an orasyon patch on the forehead placed because of protracted hiccups. Scribbled onto the patch is a prayer in pig-latin. The user has found it to be the most effective in her armamentarium of prayers, orasyon or bulong.

#22 sangot

sangot

    El Komedyante

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,889 posts
  • Group Affiliation(s):"Laging nasa Likod"

Posted 12 October 2007 - 12:34 AM

I normally dont do FREE advice or tips but since we are all brothers here
i will give one just because its my B-Day.

Sorry it has to be in tagalog.

Preparation for Death Match

1.Humanap ng isang Arnisador na hindi pa "KAPON"
2.Humingi ng "kupal", ingatang hindi matuyo
3. ihalo sa sinangag, haluan ng itlog at purefoods bacon
4. kainin habang maiinit...uminom ng tubig poso.

sa tapang ng sikmura mo...walang lalaban sayo
Manong Sangot
"Laging Takot"

#23 soulguru

soulguru

    Guro (Teacher)

  • FMAPG Organizer
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 812 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:...where you least expect
  • Interests:Silat/Supring, travels, drumming... etc.
  • Nationality:Hybrid NoyPi
  • Group Affiliation(s):Silat Tausug (Nasrun Min'Allah)

Posted 12 October 2007 - 01:06 AM

this thread's quite interesting...
Life is Rhythm, play it well...

#24 Gulo

Gulo

    Mag-aaral (Student)

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 67 posts
  • Location:PahilagaSilangan
  • Nationality:pusa

Posted 12 October 2007 - 02:25 PM

QUOTE (sangot @ Oct 11 2007, 08:34 PM)
sa tapang ng sikmura mo...walang lalaban sayo


laugh.gif
wala talaga tatalo kay datu! bow.gif

#25 eome

eome

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,186 posts
  • Location:Imus, Cavite
  • Interests:None
  • Nationality:Filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):Classical Escrima ng Binondo at Luneta

Posted 12 October 2007 - 04:06 PM

Iba ka talaga sangot.
If anyone wants to take my reputation, he will have to fight me with a sword - Grandmaster Antonio Ilustrisimo, 1979

#26 joemar

joemar

    Guro (Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 777 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manila, Philippines
  • Interests:FMA, Silat, Spirituality, Meditation, Walking Miles, Organic Farming, Bio Dynamic Farming.
  • Nationality:PHILIPPINES
  • Group Affiliation(s):Rapido Realismo Kali, UST FMA

Posted 13 October 2007 - 05:10 AM

Uhm.. kabadingan naman yan sangot dry.gif
the more i know the more i realize that i dont know

My Personal Diary

#27 kabayo

kabayo

    magnanakaw ng panty

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,451 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:divisoria,baby!
  • Interests:girls,food,girls,food
  • Nationality:chinoy
  • Group Affiliation(s):UGL

Posted 14 October 2007 - 03:53 AM

chinese martial arts have very similar practices too...
in pacto,we have 5 things to choose from,one is poverty for life,another is that your life goes nowhere,another would be the lose of family,just like the bruce lee myth,another would be that you would have no decendants and so on....pili na biggrin.gif

yihaaaaa! tigidig!!!!!!! tigidig!!!!!!



makuha ka sa tingin....

#28 shugyo

shugyo

    Dalubhasa (Expert)

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 119 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:EATING, SLEEPING& DRINKING...
  • Nationality:filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):none

Posted 14 October 2007 - 05:08 AM

QUOTE (eome @ Oct 11 2007, 06:01 PM)
Ano difference ng pacto sa amulet na kinargahan ng salita ng Diyos? or is it practically the same?

Is there an amulet directlly charged from the word of God from your point of view shugyo? thanks.


dipende po sa paniniwala at aral na pinangalingan ng antingero.

para sa akin po ang mga medalyon o anting ay contact point po lamang na ginagamit ng diyos ama. kaya po kung gumana man ang kahit sa ano man GAMIT nyo, ang pasasalamat at papuri ay dapat sa diyos ama lang ibigay at hindi po sa anting ganun din po sa orasyon.
UT IN OMNIBUS GLORIFICATUR DEUS!!!

#29 shugyo

shugyo

    Dalubhasa (Expert)

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 119 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:EATING, SLEEPING& DRINKING...
  • Nationality:filipino
  • Group Affiliation(s):none

Posted 14 October 2007 - 05:11 AM

QUOTE (kabayo @ Oct 14 2007, 10:53 AM)
chinese martial arts have very similar practices too...
in pacto,we have 5 things to choose from,one is poverty for life,another is that your life goes nowhere,another would be the lose of family,just like the bruce lee myth,another would be that you would have no decendants and so on....pili na biggrin.gif



sang ayon po ako sa inyo dito.  smile.gif
UT IN OMNIBUS GLORIFICATUR DEUS!!!

#30 Sitbatan

Sitbatan

    Dalubhasang Guro (Expert Teacher)

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,664 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pangasinan
  • Nationality:Fil-Am
  • Group Affiliation(s):Filipino Fighting Arts International

Posted 14 October 2007 - 05:54 AM

If you don't mind me sharing... and for those interested... here are some "duas" or invocations that i use personally.

http://www.duas.org/qunoot.htm
It is reported that a man came to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) and asked, "O Messenger of Allah! What should I do if someone comes to me with the intention of taking my property?'' He replied, "Do not hand it over to him.'' The man further asked, "What should I do if he fights me?'' The Messenger of Allah answered , "Then fight him.'' "What would be my position in the Hereafter if he killed me?'' The Messenger of Allah replied, "In that case you are a martyr.'' The man asked: "What if I killed him?'' The Messenger of Allah replied, ďHe will be in the Hell-fire.Ē (Reported by Muslim)
http://sitbatan.blogspot.com/