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#1 Guest_Cuentada_*

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 04:34 PM

After watching a part in one of the episodes of the BBC series - Mind, Body and Kick Ass moves where it shows GT Gaje demoing his anting anting application, I was wondering if this plays a  part in the PTK curriculum, or is this something handed to only a select few handed down from family members or shamans?

#2 JohnJ

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 05:33 PM

From my lil' knowledge of Anting-Anting, it is typically something that is handed down by generation and is sometimes accompanied by an orascion. Whether or not it works is probably dependent on the person and his faith. I was given one from my Tito and told to recite a particular Prayer several times a day.  This did not last long as it seemed to go against my religious beliefs.    

Each Anting-Anting differs in terms of the power. I have been told stories of supernatural power, the ability not to be cut or even seen. Southeast Asia is very strong in their Spiritual beliefs. Did anyone catch the short documentary that showed Thai or Indonesian people using swords and slicing back and forth everything from their belly, thighs, neck and even tongue without affect. There were some red marks but the blades did not penetrate the skin.


There is some information on bakbakan.com

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#3 Matawguro

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 05:52 PM

There's also a difference betwen an anting-anting and an agimat, the former is manufactured while the later occurs in nature. I'm not familiar with the differences in their usage though.
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#4 JohnJ

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 06:12 PM

Agimat...like the root of the banana tree? I've heard of people chewing on it.

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#5 nosyac

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Posted 15 September 2005 - 08:11 PM

QUOTE
After watching a part in one of the episodes of the BBC series - Mind, Body and Kick Ass moves where it shows GT Gaje demoing his anting anting application, I was wondering if this plays a  part in the PTK curriculum, or is this something handed to only a select few handed down from family members or shamans?


His anting-anting is/was passed by his father (so I have heard) but with PTK curriculum, I don't think it's part of it because most of his "students" - I mean masters hasn't use any.  Could be his nephew...


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#6 Eskrimador

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 01:23 AM

I think every filipino family has their own stories of anting-anting.

I was always under the belief that it had to be passed down to you by an elder family member or at least by a relative older than you.  You just can't buy one and you just can't make a cool-sounding one up and give it to a buddy.  There's supposedly some real spiritualism involved with a sense of sincerity and solemnity involved.

In my family, my Lolo (an old-school Arnisador) had an Anting-Anting tattoo on his leg (if I can remember?).  It was in Latin.  There was at least one time where he had to rely upon it and it supposedly worked.

Same thing with an uncle of mine and my dad.  I think the story goes that Lolo had told them to remember by memory only an Orascion (i.e. a Latin prayer) that was only to be recited when their lives truly depended on it.  To use it casually could have the opposite effect of giving you bad luck.  Supposedly, my uncle was in a deadly situation in his adolescence and his one-time use of it allegedly resulted in his survival.

I don't know much about these stories but, at the same time, I don't want to disrespect that which I do not know about.  There could be something to it, so there's no need to tempt fate.

Anyway, as the anting-anting & orascion were Latino-Christian in origin, they did not conflict with my family's Roman Catholic faith.
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#7 Hierophant

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 07:03 AM

Urban legends in the Philippines have it that the late dictator, Ferdinand E. Marcos, stayed in power that long and got that rich because of several anting-antings or agimats passed onto him. One of his supposed benefactors was his baptismal godfather (one of Marcos' folks was an Aglipayan Church member), Bishop Gregorio Aglipay of Ilocos Sur, the founder of the Philippine Independent Church and himself a priest and arnis master. It is said that the agimats left Marcos before he died, that's why he got so sick in the 1980s. They said that the agimats leave a person when he proves himself unworthy or when a better candidate for ownership appears.

Bishop Aglipay's agimats were unusual. They took the form of strange corns (calluses) on his back, which when pressed, would move around like children playing a game of "exchange places".

Stories have been told of Bishop Aglipay on horseback vanishing and then instantly reappearing in another part of the battlefield. Other stories have it that he once fell ill and died, and that out of his mouth came a metallic anting-anting, which his troops boiled in water. They poured the water down his throat, which revived him instantly.

My own grandpa had 2 orasyons--one to drive away snakes, and another to keep from getting wet in the rain. I honestly think that's why I never saw my dad getting wet in the rain! laugh.gif
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#8 bayani

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 08:44 AM

QUOTE (nosyac @ Sep 15 2005, 08:11 PM)
QUOTE
After watching a part in one of the episodes of the BBC series - Mind, Body and Kick Ass moves where it shows GT Gaje demoing his anting anting application, I was wondering if this plays a  part in the PTK curriculum, or is this something handed to only a select few handed down from family members or shamans?


His anting-anting is/was passed by his father (so I have heard) but with PTK curriculum, I don't think it's part of it because most of his "students" - I mean masters hasn't use any.  Could be his nephew...


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It was not passed on from his father.  It is not part of the PTK curriculum but common knowledge as he does bring students and practitioners to different "Manghihilot" or shaman type peolple who have healed many of htem where modern medicine has failed.

#9 RedBagani

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 12:06 PM

There is this pretty lady who puts an anting-anting in her mouth and prays loudly, "DARNA!!!"...
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Posted 16 September 2005 - 12:48 PM

hmm interesting stories. i think tatang Illustrisimo had some special powers too no? his were tatoos i think. i saw that they also sew or embed the stone in the skin and then tested it out with a swing of the bolo on the belly and rubbing searing hot oil over their bodies. i guess there's something to it, and mind over matter and so forth. that story about bishop aglipay disappearing and reappearing in another part of the battlefield (the ultimate evasive/counteroffensive maneuver) - i gotta get me one of those agimats hehe!

#11 nosyac

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Posted 16 September 2005 - 01:26 PM

QUOTE (RedBagani @ Sep 16 2005, 08:06 AM)
There is this pretty lady who puts an anting-anting in her mouth and prays loudly, "DARNA!!!"...


laugh.gif  laugh.gif  Man, I never thought I heard that name in a long... long time!  My sister was so obsessed with Vilma Santos (aka DARNA - NARDA).  Funny.

Back to the topic.  There was a telemovie before (hope you remember this..) titled, KAMAGONG - JC Bonin as the MA fighter and there were several amulets displayed on the show and some are true and some aren't.  I can't recall which of those anting-anting were actually used in real life... i'm sure one will get the bottom of this.

Ang Panday - the late FPJ.  Ramon Revilla, Sr.  How about Nardong Putik.  Now, these people were using anting-antings.  Care to add more?


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#12 Diego_Vega

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 04:01 AM

My uncle was one of the policemen who massacred the Valentine de los Santos Lapiang Malaya cult in Pasay. According to my uncle the cults' anting antings didn't work.
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#13 duende2005

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 05:51 AM

QUOTE
Back to the topic. There was a telemovie before (hope you remember this..) titled, KAMAGONG - JC Bonin as the MA fighter and there were several amulets displayed on the show and some are true and some aren't. I can't recall which of those anting-anting were actually used in real life... i'm sure one will get the bottom of this.


I think the best anting-anting in that movie was...JC Bonin's hair heavily laced with AquaNet. AquaNet-coated hair could stop bullets. The other power of that kind of hair is that, if you sported the 'do even just once, during a weak moment in the 1980s, it will embarrass you for the rest of your life.

Seriously though, I didn't like the arnis in that movie. Lito Lapid and Ruel Vernal were going at it like 1970s B-movie era cavemen with clubs. I thought the action scenes, the one's with stick-fighting, were a disservice to FMA.  


QUOTE (Diego_Vega @ Sep 17 2005, 12:01 PM)
My uncle was one of the policemen who massacred the Valentine de los Santos Lapiang Malaya cult in Pasay. According to my uncle the cults' anting antings didn't work.


Does any anting-anting/agimat actually work? I wouldn't know. My family is from Bohol and there are anting-anting stories in our family. Unfortunately, I've forgotten most of them. One anting-anting my uncle used to have was a piece of deer-horn that you supposedly rub on a dog-bite to protect you from rabies.

As for the Lapiang Malaya cult, yes the members were massacred after they attacked policemen with bolos.  In the Escudero Museum, there's a Lapiang Malaya "supersuit" with the usual Latin-based inscriptions and drawings. You can see the blood-stains and bullet-holes.

I know Diego will be doubtful of anting-anting but I'm keeping my mind open. From what I heard growing up, a genuine anting-anting or agimat isn't that easy to get. It requires devoted, shamanic lifestyle. The ones who reputedly had (or have) anting-anting had to subject themselves to certain rigorours spiritual/supernatural practices and strict rituals. Failure to follow the practice strictly will cause the anting-anting/agimat to fail. So either the Lapiang Malaya cult was involved in that kind of practice but something went horribly wrong that caused their powers to fail, or they were a bunch of deluded crackpots. Either way, they're all dead.

Basically, from what I vaguely remember, getting an anting-anting/agimat could be too much trouble than its worth. I mean, okay, you can turn invisible but then you'd have to follow the Lunar Calendar, memorize oracion, ONLY TAKE SHOWERS EVERY FRIDAY (producing another kind of olfactory-blasting power that will prevent you from having an enjoyable date with most decent people) blink.gif kill white native chickens for rituals and climb a mountain every Good Friday to perform rituals to "recharge" your anting-anting/agimat.

Would you rather do all that or just sit down and play some PS2? What possible use could you have for invisibility?

Also, getting an anting-anting/agimat isn't always a good thing. Eventually, the powers you get from them--this is according to the folklore--will take their toll on your body, resulting in chronic illness, painful symptoms or even insanity in your old age. Of course, the guy claiming to have such powers could have been insane in the first place  laugh.gif

Still, I would believe anting-anting/agimat if and when I see it actually work. For that, I'd have to make a trip to Bohol's jungles or meet genuine shamans. Or go to Siquijor. My sister tells me some genuine shamans still exist. But would you want to meet them? What for?
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"Duende is a power and not a behavior, it is a struggle and not a concept. I have heard an old master guitarist say: ‘Duende is not in the throat; duende surges up from the soles of the feet.’ Which means it is not a matter of ability, but of real live form; of blood; of ancient culture; of creative action."
Federico Garcia Lorca

#14 nosyac

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 06:23 AM

Duende,

Nice one!  Forgive me from asking you... your alias here in the forum means something?  DUENDE or Duwende!  These small (or not) fairies that we all know - if you befriend them will give rewards or provide some anting-anting or agimat if you're kind to them?  Stories told countless times that these "creatures" have special abilities to grant you powers or some kind of amulet that will keep you from harm.  

Is there a reason why you chose the name?


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#15 duende2005

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 06:36 AM

And since we're moving into the supernatural stuff, let me share my experience with some shamanic activity.

The house where my family and I live used face the creepy ruins of a house. A few days after we moved in--this was 4 years ago--we began to experience what I would with much reservation describe as poltergeist activity. I basically ignored all of that but the last straw was when my then 1 year old daughter refused to go to bed.

I mean, she simply refused to sleep on the bed she shared with me and my wife. Our bedroom window up until now looks across that vacant lot. She kept pointing at the window saying , "Mama, mama" which means, in Tagalog with the stress on the last syllable, "stranger" or "man".

It took me and my wife hours of carrying our daughter in our arms and rocking her to sleep. Only when she was asleep were we able to place her on the bed. This lasted several nights.

Then one morning, my mother-in-law who lives in the house beside us, stopped by our gate because she saw something unusual on the ground. It was a black-and-white id photo of my dad, who died a few months after my daughter was born.

In my usual probinsyano way of thinking ( I grew up in the city but was raised by provincials, so I'm as probinsyano in my thinking and values as they are), I thought my dad's spirit was just visiting my daughter.

But the same problem happened again and again for several more nights. So I ended up doing what my grandparents told me they did when being bugged by the supernatural. Which is fairly resonable. You talk to the ghost or spirit doing the bugging.

One night I looked out the living room window, faced the creepy ruins across me and as sincerely as I could without laughing or thinking I've lost my mind, tried to persuade the sprit/s to let my daughter sleep. I tried to make logical, sympathetic arguments for this.

When I went to our bedroom, my daughter was already playing in bed, and later slept soundly.

The next night, we had the same problem again. Clearly, I was not going to spend every single night talking to the dark ruins of the house across us. We couldn't move to the other room because that was the maids' room and it was stuffier and hotter in there.

So I followed another family custom. I asked my mom to kill a white chicken and wipe its blood on the posts of our gate. There's a specific way to do this. The chicken's neck has to be slashed and the blood allowed to spill. Then you twist and break its neck. Only then can you chop the neck off.

My mom, who didn't want to use her hands to wipe the blood on the gateposts, used the severed head, beak, eyes, feathers and all, as a kind of goth paintbrush, painting cross-shapes on the gateposts.

I didn't do it myself because I honestly wasn't sure if the whole thing was gonna work. The entire ceremony was a ritual offering, acknowledging the spirits' existence and basically, asking their permission to allow us to live across them in peace. After all, we were the newcomers in the neighborhood and if being neighbourly to spirits across our house was going to get me, my wife and my daughter some sleep, why the heck not?

Anyway, my mom instructed the maids to make tinola out of the chicken. You'd think we'd have to toss the chicken onto the vacant lot but you see, it's the ritual of offering, not the literal offering that the spirits wanted.

I was left in the driveway, looking through the bloody gate and watching the ruins across us. I think I must have been glaring at the spirits for forcing me to do what we just did.

Then, very casually, this albino woman dressed in panuelo and other Spanish era clothes stepped out of the gate of the ruins across me. I just sat there dumbly, not surprised, not doing anything. She was completely white, except for her eyes which were "normal" looking. Even her long straight hair was completely white. Her skirt however, was black.

The woman looked at me and nodded. Her expression wasn't scary at all. It was a look that said some kind of understanding had been reached between us. The wind was blowing. I could feel it on my skin and I even saw the woman's skirt move as the wind blew on it, too.

Then the woman disappeared.

Whether or not the shamanic practice was "real", whether what I saw was just my own hallucination, I can't really say. I only know 2 things.

1. The poltergeist activity stopped and my entire family has been sleeping soundly in our room ever since.

2. The tinola from that chicken was one of the best I ever had.

I don't have any agimat or anting-anting, but then if getting one means dealing with more stuff like what I just told you...I pass.  cool.gif
"I'll tell you the ultimate secret of magic. Any cunt could do it."
"Okay, I was gonna whack you. But I was real conflicted about it."
"Duende is a power and not a behavior, it is a struggle and not a concept. I have heard an old master guitarist say: ‘Duende is not in the throat; duende surges up from the soles of the feet.’ Which means it is not a matter of ability, but of real live form; of blood; of ancient culture; of creative action."
Federico Garcia Lorca

#16 duende2005

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 06:43 AM

QUOTE (nosyac @ Sep 17 2005, 02:23 PM)
Duende,

Nice one!  Forgive me from asking you... your alias here in the forum means something?  DUENDE or Duwende!  These small (or not) fairies that we all know - if you befriend them will give rewards or provide some anting-anting or agimat if you're kind to them?  Stories told countless times that these "creatures" have special abilities to grant you powers or some kind of amulet that will keep you from harm. 

Is there a reason why you chose the name?


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The name is taken from the literary theory expounded by the Spanish poet Federico Garcia Lorca. Lorca is influential in my work as a poet. In Lorca's view, the greatest art comes when the artist creates or performs an art under the influence of duende. So I have a lot of poems, I'd like to think, that are "possessed with duende."

But then I've already left the Philippine literary art scene behind. I want to focus on martial arts nowadays. Maybe I'll find the duende there, too. Lorca said that duende can be found in any art that requires a living body to perform it. So this includes recited poetry, dance, live musical performance, and yes, martial arts, probably. Matawguro told me about a "Highlander" episode where one of the immortals practiced a mysterious Spanish fencing style that required the fencer to be "possessed" by duende.

This is a name straight out of Spanish and Moor-Spanish culture. The duende is supposed to be a dark earth spirit. I think the Filipino belief in dwendes comes from this.  After all, duende is a Spanish word.

But Filipinos already believed in spirit prior to the Spanish colonization. Di ba in Tagalog the term is "Lamang-Lupa?"

The belief in duendes belongs to another thread, though  wink.gif
"I'll tell you the ultimate secret of magic. Any cunt could do it."
"Okay, I was gonna whack you. But I was real conflicted about it."
"Duende is a power and not a behavior, it is a struggle and not a concept. I have heard an old master guitarist say: ‘Duende is not in the throat; duende surges up from the soles of the feet.’ Which means it is not a matter of ability, but of real live form; of blood; of ancient culture; of creative action."
Federico Garcia Lorca

#17 kamagong2

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 08:42 AM

I think when we were in high school we had a fieldtrip in the money museum where the other central bank is located along roxas  blvd. inside there is this torn off white t-shirt with writings on it and  and a triangle  with an eye in the midlle they say suoppose to have anting -anting its in encased in a glass. anyone saw this.   ohmy.gif

#18 bayani

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 08:59 AM

QUOTE (duende2005 @ Sep 17 2005, 06:43 AM)
QUOTE (nosyac @ Sep 17 2005, 02:23 PM)
Duende,

Nice one!  Forgive me from asking you... your alias here in the forum means something?  DUENDE or Duwende!  These small (or not) fairies that we all know - if you befriend them will give rewards or provide some anting-anting or agimat if you're kind to them?  Stories told countless times that these "creatures" have special abilities to grant you powers or some kind of amulet that will keep you from harm. 

Is there a reason why you chose the name?


BACKFLIPS



The name is taken from the literary theory expounded by the Spanish poet Federico Garcia Lorca. Lorca is influential in my work as a poet. In Lorca's view, the greatest art comes when the artist creates or performs an art under the influence of duende. So I have a lot of poems, I'd like to think, that are "possessed with duende."

But then I've already left the Philippine literary art scene behind. I want to focus on martial arts nowadays. Maybe I'll find the duende there, too. Lorca said that duende can be found in any art that requires a living body to perform it. So this includes recited poetry, dance, live musical performance, and yes, martial arts, probably. Matawguro told me about a "Highlander" episode where one of the immortals practiced a mysterious Spanish fencing style that required the fencer to be "possessed" by duende.

This is a name straight out of Spanish and Moor-Spanish culture. The duende is supposed to be a dark earth spirit. I think the Filipino belief in dwendes comes from this.  After all, duende is a Spanish word.

But Filipinos already believed in spirit prior to the Spanish colonization. Di ba in Tagalog the term is "Lamang-Lupa?"

The belief in duendes belongs to another thread, though  wink.gif



Wasn't Lorca's muse the "green fairy" aka absinthe ?  alcohol spirits with a halucinatory twist- mag inuman na tayo booze.gif

#19 duende2005

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 09:05 AM

QUOTE (kamagong2 @ Sep 17 2005, 04:42 PM)
I think when we were in high school we had a fieldtrip in the money museum where the other central bank is located along roxas  blvd. inside there is this torn off white t-shirt with writings on it and  and a triangle  with an eye in the midlle they say suoppose to have anting -anting its in encased in a glass. anyone saw this.   ohmy.gif



hey! I remember seeing that!

btw, kamagong, your avatar looks so good...IT'S DISTRACTING  rolleyes.gif  wink.gif
"I'll tell you the ultimate secret of magic. Any cunt could do it."
"Okay, I was gonna whack you. But I was real conflicted about it."
"Duende is a power and not a behavior, it is a struggle and not a concept. I have heard an old master guitarist say: ‘Duende is not in the throat; duende surges up from the soles of the feet.’ Which means it is not a matter of ability, but of real live form; of blood; of ancient culture; of creative action."
Federico Garcia Lorca

#20 Matawguro

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 01:38 PM

QUOTE (RedBagani @ Sep 16 2005, 08:06 PM)
There is this pretty lady who puts an anting-anting in her mouth and prays loudly, "DARNA!!!"...

I think that would an agimat, but I'm not too familiar with the Darna mythos.  shrug.gif

But I digress...
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#21 Matawguro

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 03:17 PM

Speaking  of "duende', there's an interesting episode of the Highlander TV series titled "Duende" (the script can be found here).

QUOTE
Inside, Richie is asking Anne about "duende."

Richie: "So this 'duende,' this happens all the time?"

Anna: "Not every time. The true duende is where--" She considers. "It happens when the dancer is beyond being tired. So exhausted he can't think. He can't stop, either. The spirit of the dance enters you. For a moment, time stops, pain stops, your body seems to move by itself. It is then that the dance can be truly perfect."


The episode features Duncan Mcleod dueling a Spanish master swordsman within a Thibault's Circle. FMA practitioners will be able to spot smilarities between the fight choreography and some Espada y Daga techniques.

QUOTE
Richie: "So, you beat the master at his own game, huh."

Duncan: "Consone thought the fight was all about control, about mastering every step and every move." He waves his hands, and smiles. "You know, there's a place in the dance when you just forget about dancing. And you do things beyond what your body has learnt, that's beyond what your conscious mind is aware of."

Richie: "Duende." Duncan stares, and then nods. "I'm learning, Mac."

Duncan: "Duende."


I only wish I could find a copy of the episode.
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#22 RedBagani

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Posted 17 September 2005 - 03:30 PM

Hello Matawguro,
Yeah, i think you are right about agimat being a natural power object. In other circles, such an object is called a mutya, which others translate merely as a "pearl". Similar terms are also found in other South-East Asian cultures. How to use them? Well, I guess you put the mutya in your mouth and say the magic words.

The tv series Encantadia also has some interesting things about the use of power objects. The four elements are used in magick. But the most interesting things to watch are the leading ladies.
May all beings, human & non-human, visible & invisible, be happy, peaceful & liberated!

#23 kamagong2

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 11:36 AM

one time on tv they showed different kinds of agimat one was like a plastic wrapper the guy started to shoot the wrapper but .45 jammed and it won't shoot they say if you use it with bad intentions it won't work i duno about those NPA's claiming they have anting anting and even a goverment soldier  shot them  they don't have a scratch on them   rolleyes.gif

#24 duende2005

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 02:15 AM

QUOTE (RedBagani @ Sep 17 2005, 11:30 PM)
In other circles, such an object is called a mutya, which others translate merely as a "pearl". Similar terms are also found in other South-East Asian cultures. How to use them? Well, I guess you put the mutya in your mouth and say the magic words.

The tv series Encantadia also has some interesting things about the use of power objects. The four elements are used in magick. But the most interesting things to watch are the leading ladies.


Somehow reading "mutya", "pearl", "put in your mouth" and "leading ladies" all together in one post does create some powerful impulses, but that's probably biology not magic.  rolleyes.gif

And I think there's some anthropoligical interest being stirred here. I mean, why is there feminine imagery associated with many agimat (the power sources in nature) while the one wishing to gain its powers is portrayed as a man who must survive a dangerous quest to gain that agimat?

I can relate to that. I used to court a mestiza who had six big burly mestizo brothers guarding her, one of whom waved a .45 in front of me. I wish I had an agimat or anting-anting to use back then.  tongue.gif
"I'll tell you the ultimate secret of magic. Any cunt could do it."
"Okay, I was gonna whack you. But I was real conflicted about it."
"Duende is a power and not a behavior, it is a struggle and not a concept. I have heard an old master guitarist say: ‘Duende is not in the throat; duende surges up from the soles of the feet.’ Which means it is not a matter of ability, but of real live form; of blood; of ancient culture; of creative action."
Federico Garcia Lorca

#25 RedBagani

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 12:08 PM

If you guys want academic research on the subject, look for Grace Odal, a babaylan who did research on Mutya in the Philippines and other South-East Asian cultures. UP press also produced a good book on anting-anting "Kung bakit nagtatago ang bathala sa bato" by a lady named Pambid (I forgot the first name).

If you want something more experiential, go to Mt. Banahaw. There are plenty of people you can interview.

Matawguro, how about asking master Sioc? I think he has interesting things to say.
May all beings, human & non-human, visible & invisible, be happy, peaceful & liberated!

#26 labsica64

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 12:22 PM

The tv series Encantadia also has some interesting things about the use of power objects. The four elements are used in magick. But the most interesting things to watch are the leading ladies.
[/quote]

Uh-huh. And so this is about marital arts as contrasted to martial arts?  tongue.gif

And I think there's some anthropoligical interest being stirred here. I mean, why is there feminine imagery associated with many agimat (the power sources in nature) while the one wishing to gain its powers is portrayed as a man who must survive a dangerous quest to gain that agimat?

Philippine epic poetry is shot through with this kind of dualism as regards the use of power: femininity associated with the power of the other world, thus the female is the baylan or sorceress; masculinity associated with the power of this world, thus the male is the bagani or warrior. Duende, what you touched on goes waaaay back before the Spanish era.
Consider this: Bi-ag ni Lam-ang (Ilokano) the hero is killed in combat (male activity) and is brought back to life by his mother (female activity).
Both are not contradictory to each other, but are seen as complementary. Apparently the Spanish conquest changed the nature of this relationship, concentrating power in this world and the next in the hands of males. Females with this kind of power were then labeled as evil witches (the beginning of the idea of the aswang). For a better take on the subject, look for Explorations in Philippine Folklore available from Ateneo Press.

I should note - contrary to the westernized notions of females being passive objects, females in Philippine epics take an active role in the stories.

#27 Tony Torre

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 12:47 AM

Getting back to duendes or duwendes.  These are universally known forest spirits or beings.  The spanish may have influenced the spread of these legends.  Mexicans and most latin Americans have heard of them.  It gets interesting when you consider Native Americans, Africans, and even Europeans have similar "beings" in their mythology.

Food For Thought,

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#28 Hierophant

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 03:22 PM

QUOTE
I mean, why is there feminine imagery associated with many agimat (the power sources in nature) while the one wishing to gain its powers is portrayed as a man who must survive a dangerous quest to gain that agimat?

In western mysticism, the union of the male and female produces a complete and powerful unity. This is the theme behind the 'mystical marriage' behind the Rosicrucian booklet "The Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz". This is the same concept behind alchemy, where the blending of two different materials produces a new substance, or results in the purification or elevation of the original one.

This is also the theme underlying the concept of 'sex magick' or sex rituals to invoke the beneficent powers of mother nature in pre-Jewish civilizations. To get a good harvest or prosperity for the new year, sex rituals were conducted in honor of the Mother Goddess (Ishtar or Ashtaroth or Ashtoreth or Astarte).
"So many of our dreams at first seem impossible. Then they seem improbable. And then, when we summon the WILL, they soon become inevitable." -- Christopher Reeve

#29 Paco

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 05:40 PM

It is interesting how traditional cultures share many parallels. Being married to a pinoy woman and practicing fma gives one some insight, and the more I see the more common themes emerge.

Going back to Duende's post about the ruins and the spirit facing his house:

Animal sacrifice is perhaps the most common way to appease spirits or obtain protection. In the afro-caribbean religions of santeria and palo mayombe, animal sacrifice is necessary in order to do anything. Spiritism (by that latinos refer to Allan Kardec's religion based on mediums/seances and Christianity) however does not, using prayer, herbs and "baths".

There is no per se equivalent of "anting-anting" in afro-caribbean religions.
However, in santeria (the worship of the saints- worship of african divinities disguised as catholic saints), the believer receives at least five multi-colored beaded necklaces at the outset of his initiation. Each necklace represents a different divinity- they say that they act as protection. There are accounts of how the necklaces shattered and the beads scattered when some harm was to befall the wearer. Others say that they begin to feel warm as danger approaches. The ilekes or necklaces must be treated with respect : you cannot let them touch the ground, have sex with them on or get drunk or high while wearing them. i dunno if pinoy anting anting has the same restriction, but I'm giving you the latino side of it.

In palo mayombe (sometimes called the dark side of santeria, although I disagree. Santeria comes from Nigeria, Palo comes from the Kongo, although they share many divinities: palo is based on making a compact with spirits of the deceased) worshippers do not use anything to mark themselves as paleros, in fact, the religion is more secretive. The only thing I can say is that part of the initiation involves ingestion of sacred items as well as special marks on one's body. this resembles stories of anting antings I heard that had to be swallowed or kept in the mouth as well as of the tattoos on one's body.

Anybody interested on learning more can PM me or open up a thread.

#30 Tony Torre

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 06:29 PM

Paco,

I am by no means an authority on afro caribean religions, but I have seen some amulets that seem to be similar to anting anting.  Also catholics use talismans with likenesses of saints and the asabache (spelling?) stone used to ward off the evil eye ( mal de hojo).

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