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Sports Arnis techniques


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#1 Pedram

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 12:01 PM

Hi all,

I train for both the art and the sport of eskrima - I love it. I also used to fire twirl with a staff.
I don't make many entries in this forum but I really enjoy browsing and looking at links re eskrima moves - I have an excellent instructor and regular training but I still dabble in books, dvds, and whatever I can find... a little bit stick obsessed.. whatever.  

Anyway, what I really would like to see is some kind of techniques forum - it could include the following categories: Single stick, Double Stick, Sports arnis techniques - I know such things (i.e. techniques forums) exist for firetwirling but not very often for the martial arts and even less for fma. I'm willing to share some moves, I don't think my Instructor would really care and I think I agree that nothing quite compares to being on the receiving end of a curved strike to the back of the head to tidy up your technique and quicken your reflexes.  

Having said that is it possible to set up such a forum here? Who wouldn't be interested? If you've got some magical move that you're saving for a tournament then fair enough.... If you've taken a blood oath that you would never share your secret art then ok.... but for the rest of us, wouldn't you regularly log on the techniques forum page if it existed?


Yours sincerely,

Pedram



#2 Warrior In Scrubs

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 02:51 PM

You can always share it on YouTube, Sir.

We'll all be glad to see it. wink.gif

#3 Francis T. B. Serano

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 03:38 PM

have you heard of WEKAF?
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#4 Pedram

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 03:20 AM

QUOTE (Francis T. B. Serano @ Feb 21 2009, 01:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
have you heard of WEKAF?



Yes I've heard of WEKAF... and numerous other organisations. Unless I'm missing something there isn't exactly an organised techniques forum on any single site. Yes, I can collect bits and pieces here and there but a collaborative effort to bring together techniques and offer suggestions would be awesome.

Looking at some grainy youtube clip with a sinawali or drill that takes ages to dissect doesn't help my sports arnis much either.

I want to see lists like .... "top 10 pieces of advice for tournament stick fighting.... 1. Hit with the tip of the stick 2. Move around the opponent to a `dead spot' 3. Follow a roof block with a redonda to the head... etc....."


Am I all alone on this one?




#5 jerry

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 03:55 AM

No, but it is very difficult to describe techniques with words, and terminology is different across systems.  Also, sport stick fighting venues have different rules, so different strategies must be employed.  Technique-wise, one man's treasure is another man's trash, since different systems employ different strategies  I think it is a good idea, but don't see how it can work.  That being said, the centerline intercept is useful....

#6 Pedram

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 07:04 AM

QUOTE (jerry @ Feb 21 2009, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, but it is very difficult to describe techniques with words, and terminology is different across systems.  Also, sport stick fighting venues have different rules, so different strategies must be employed.  Technique-wise, one man's treasure is another man's trash, since different systems employ different strategies  I think it is a good idea, but don't see how it can work.  That being said, the centerline intercept is useful....



All great points. However, there are some essentials ... like mixing up shots, including high and low shots. A nomenclature I've seen used that seemed universally understandable was Inward (I) and Backward (cool.gif i.e. Forehand and Backhand ... then you can throw in Down (D) and Upwards (U) .. thus a "Caveman" shot would be ID with R hand. This way no one has to fret about there 1-12 being different to anothers 1-12 strikes. Furthermore, can throw in Thrust (T) and even LT (Left Thrust) and RT (Right Thrust) and R (Redondo).

We're nearly there. Now I might suggest that after someone tries to caveman you in the head then a good response (ignoring footwork all all the other things that go with it) would be a RB (surely roof block deserves its own acronym) followed by a right hand ID and BU followed by an Abanico (A) to the Right side of the attackers head.

It's not impossible. I reckon it'll eventually happen. I think we should do it on this forum.





#7 Francis T. B. Serano

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 09:50 AM

Pedram - My bad dude i guess I should have read your entire thread entry before I made my response, although now I can now follow up.  

The reason why I brought up WEKAF was that is that the style of "SPORT ARNIS" that you are talking about?  I mean just like what Jerry said each organization does things differently so thus I want to make sure we are talking about said forum instead of another.

But as far as thoughts and idea, I think it's a great idea as long we are clear which move or counter move we are going to be discussed.  Also someone I think it was WARRIOR SCRUBS (not sure if that is the right username) started a thread talking about how to prepare for WEKAF style tournament.  I think (if you haven't read it yet) that you will find it informative.
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#8 Pat OMalley

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 01:53 PM

Well if you have pictures and an article you could always drop it in to Stickfighter Magazine and who knows it may be the start of a regular article giving advise on the various sport Arnis formats and how to train for them as there are many veteran sport Arnis fighters out there that can give good advise, but they need some good questions to generate the right answer.

Best regards

Pat

#9 Mangtas

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 06:48 PM

Different tournaments ,....different rules.
So since you are all alone on this one it will be very disadvantageous if you cant get a sparring partner. The brothers here can give all the tips and tecniques but the application will be vague if nobody trains with you....just my experience and myb thoughts. Try getting a sparring partner.

#10 Pat OMalley

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:23 AM

QUOTE (Mangtas @ Feb 21 2009, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Different tournaments ,....different rules.
So since you are all alone on this one it will be very disadvantageous if you cant get a sparring partner. The brothers here can give all the tips and tecniques but the application will be vague if nobody trains with you....just my experience and myb thoughts. Try getting a sparring partner.
I agree, without a sparring partner all we have is just talk, you need to be able to test your techniques and theories on a non compliant moving target that is trying it's best to hit you back and prevent you from hitting them. Tips and advise are great if you can put them in to practice but if you cant then they are simply just words. And like any MA system, if you dont spar you will never know if it has even a slim chance of working.

Best regards

Pat


#11 Pedram

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 08:20 AM

QUOTE (Mangtas @ Feb 22 2009, 05:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Different tournaments ,....different rules.
So since you are all alone on this one it will be very disadvantageous if you cant get a sparring partner. The brothers here can give all the tips and tecniques but the application will be vague if nobody trains with you....just my experience and myb thoughts. Try getting a sparring partner.



I didn't mean that I'm literally alone.... standing in some paddock hitting a tyre and chasing chickens ... that's not what's happening. I'm a member of a stickfighting club / community that regularly trains and competes. I competed last year in the NZ stickfighting championships. The problem is not a lack of training partners. In fact there isn't really a problem - I was simply hoping that I could expand my range of moves / thoughts / techniques through some kind of collaborative tips and tricks and techniques forum.

I'm not crazy. This is a good idea - I'm not suggesting anyone who has never had any formal training start beating their best friend with a stick by applying last weeks top 10 moves.

I really don't know. The above comment (try getting a sparring partner) really frustrates me.

#12 jerry

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:16 AM

I think we know what you mean.  No offense intended, although I have chased chickens myself, and hit tires.  For instance, fencing has a very specific terminology (which gives me a headache just to think about).  Probably, in the absence of the latest technology, meaning videos, discussing technique for sport stick fighting might be asking a bit too much for most of the people here, who enjoy all types of FMA, but represent a diverse assortment.  Perhaps sport stick fighting has reached the point where it needs specific commercial videos and instruction for particular venues.  My own feelings are:  1) that it should be based on reality, rather than flailing or touches, and 2) experienced judges need to be doing the scoring, as it is hard to see what is going on for most people.  Although there are dozens of videos on point scoring in unarmed martial arts, I don't really know of any for stick fighting contests.  I've only seen WEKAF contests on video, not instruction, and the Dog Brothers, who are a bit too hardcore for most people.....

#13 Pedram

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 12:02 PM

QUOTE (jerry @ Feb 23 2009, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think we know what you mean.  No offense intended, although I have chased chickens myself, and hit tires.  For instance, fencing has a very specific terminology (which gives me a headache just to think about).  Probably, in the absence of the latest technology, meaning videos, discussing technique for sport stick fighting might be asking a bit too much for most of the people here, who enjoy all types of FMA, but represent a diverse assortment.  Perhaps sport stick fighting has reached the point where it needs specific commercial videos and instruction for particular venues.  My own feelings are:  1) that it should be based on reality, rather than flailing or touches, and 2) experienced judges need to be doing the scoring, as it is hard to see what is going on for most people.  Although there are dozens of videos on point scoring in unarmed martial arts, I don't really know of any for stick fighting contests.  I've only seen WEKAF contests on video, not instruction, and the Dog Brothers, who are a bit too hardcore for most people.....


To be fair I agree with everything you've said above Jerry .... It makes sense..... I just wish there was more material around . I quite enjoyed reading Stickfighter Magazine (looked really good) - Maybe in a few editions we'll see a sports arnis section.... I'd even write a bit myself but I've only been training a few years myself and just getting started.

Looking forward to some cool stuff in the future.




#14 Pat OMalley

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 12:25 PM

There is a thread on here giving training tips on the WEKAF Format which is very similar to the format of New Zealand Championships you took part in, but there are also other formats abound in sport FMA and each have sports specific training required of them.

There is an old WEKAF training DVD out by Abanico Video Productions which is featuring Masters Percival Pableo and Danny Guba both of whom where great champions in WEKAF, I helped to write the script for that DVD back in 1995 so some of the things with regards to the rules have changed since then. My wife also sells this DVD in her company Eskrimador Supplies.

I am planning to film a DVD sometime in the near future about training for sports FMA in the different formats I have done e.g. WEKAF, Padded Stick and Black Eagle Society but I am not sure when I will be getting round to it as I have a couple of others I need to do first.

What sort of tips are you looking for with regards to the format you have done so far?

Best regards

Pat

#15 Bheehappy

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 01:54 PM

I'm actually trying to experiment on using techniques from the stick training (I mean striking, blocks, abanicos, force to force, even sinawali, all the good stuff) during sparring to see how these will go with a resisting/evading opponent. I think the techniques used on the "art" side should not be separated from the sport/combative side. It's a matter of training it over and over again until it becomes second nature to one's body. Doing the Dog brother stuff is great although I agree that they are too extreme for some practitioners. In our group, we have Pang-Oran which actually combines both empty hand and stick fighting techniques. We haven't sparred with it for awhile since it is not widely used on local tournaments but I'm trying to experiment on stuff. I hope I can put it up on video (wishful thinking). By the way guys, hope you can respond on the sinawali thread I started!

FMA all the way!