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Silat Suffian Bela Diri - Traditional Bruneian Kuntau


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#1 dark_hadou

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:42 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGFDikazKGQ

your thoughts from a empty hand perspective

#2 Raul

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:12 AM

Maul is very good but in my POV, his movements look  more like self-taught rather than traditional Bruneian martial art. I don't know much about Bruneian martial arts but his movements are so familiar.
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#3 datoq

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:41 AM

QUOTE (Raul @ Oct 29 2009, 05:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maul is very good but in my POV, his movements look  more like self-taught rather than traditional Bruneian martial art. I don't know much about Bruneian martial arts but his movements are so familiar.


so familiar

#4 AK-47

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 09:28 AM

QUOTE (dark_hadou @ Oct 29 2009, 02:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGFDikazKGQ

your thoughts from a empty hand perspective


The accompanying music in the clip is traditional ... but IMHO the empty hands feels  like Kalifornian Silat&FMA....
I wonder, do his weapon moves look familiar to Kalis Illustrissimo's?
I have come across many many secrets in martial arts over the years.  They are all very different but they all have one major thing in common.  They are all very very simple.  The only real secret is that you have to practise your “secret” every day before it delivers the results.

#5 dark_hadou

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 10:26 AM

heres some knife
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l313b_jTio

karambit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R47XXT2tIbM

Blade Vs Blade "Gunting" Disarm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iebY9oeOW50

(Knife and Machete)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2DtCUfCyfk

(Stick Fighting - Sibat pendek)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrN_0Vvs3dc

#6 Sanduko

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 05:06 PM

I've been wondering about Mauls training too. His silat and kuntao look a lot like a mix between Mande Muda, Serak and Kuntao Silat deThouars. His stick work looks a little Inosanto'ish/PTK'ish.
If I am wrong, then Brunei Silat looks Javanese and Filipino.
I do think Maul is a great teacher and practitioner. I just wish he's give up the arts he has trained and not call it Brunei Silat.

#7 datoq

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 04:03 AM

Kwento lang:

A week ago I was tempted to ask him about his M.A. background directly through his shoutbox. I didn't get any reply from him. Instead, I got several smart ass replies from his students/followers/groupies.

One response that really made my day was "fma learned from maul." I left the site without receiving a concrete answer.

I know that what I did was quite stupid, but a question of whether you studied FMA or not can easily be dismissed by a yes or a no.




#8 Kali-bangon

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 06:18 AM

QUOTE (Raul @ Oct 29 2009, 05:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maul is very good but in my POV, his movements look  more like self-taught rather than traditional Bruneian martial art. I don't know much about Bruneian martial arts but his movements are so familiar.

Now that I think about it, reminds me of Dan Inosanto doing a JKD/Kali demo. Pretty wicked Kerambit demo though, wouldn't wanna face him in a dark alley with that in his hand  tongue.gif
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#9 FUS

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:01 AM

QUOTE (Sanduko @ Nov 2 2009, 08:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I do think Maul is a great teacher and practitioner.

I agree that he's a good martial artist. But I think time will tell whether or not he's a great teacher. Its too early to see if anything he's imparting to his students has any staying power. I have yet to see any of his students move in his clips with any substantial ability. But who knows, that may take a couple of years to emerge. Especially since he's jumping to 40 to 50 locations in a year to teach.

#10 AK-47

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 11:38 AM

He moves well but what about the mental-spiritual aspect of his system? Is it possible to teach it through seminars? I have the impression he is teaching very westernized  silat&fma ....
I have come across many many secrets in martial arts over the years.  They are all very different but they all have one major thing in common.  They are all very very simple.  The only real secret is that you have to practise your “secret” every day before it delivers the results.

#11 RedBagani

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:26 PM

Something about the way he keeps his body upright and the way he steps and knees tells me he is doing real Silat/Kuntau, and not just a self-taught system ripped off from fma. I am not sure if it is accurate to call it "traditional". I have lived in the Belait district of Brunei for more than a decade, and have seen traditional styles like Cekak. I haven't seen SSBD live. I believe that Maul moves very well. Terima Kaseh, Awang Maul.
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#12 Sanduko

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE (RedBagani @ Nov 3 2009, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Something about the way he keeps his body upright and the way he steps and knees tells me he is doing real Silat/Kuntau, and not just a self-taught system ripped off from fma. I am not sure if it is accurate to call it "traditional".


The upright posture, entries, elbows and knees are text book Serak/Bukti Negara/Kuntao Silat from the deThouars family. The robotic nature of the rhythym is also the deThouars flair.



#13 RedBagani

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:20 AM

Yes, that rhythm can throw off an opponent's. It is something one acquires through training. Any reason to believe that only the de Thours know how to do this?
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#14 Karl

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 01:04 PM

QUOTE (RedBagani @ Nov 5 2009, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, that rhythm can throw off an opponent's. It is something one acquires through training. Any reason to believe that only the de Thours know how to do this?



I dont think so.....I was chating with him a couple of years ago when he was introducing his style of Silat and he allways say and told me that it is "his family style" passed to him by his Grandfather...
I believe him....

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#15 Sanduko

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 01:32 PM

QUOTE (RedBagani @ Nov 5 2009, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, that rhythm can throw off an opponent's. It is something one acquires through training. Any reason to believe that only the de Thours know how to do this?


In all my years of studying Silat and watching a ton of different styles from different parts of Indonesia and Malaysia, I've only seen one style that have the exact sambuts and buahs that Maul is demonstrating in his videos. He is demonstrating straight out of a book, step by step techniques from Serak. All of my Serak friends who are instructors have said the same thing.
If you can show me a video of a different style that has the same movements and rhythm, I will change my opinion of Maul.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to call out Maul or any one else, I just think he's calling his knowledge in Serak as SSBD, which I do not agree with.
If I could see just one traditional jurus or langka performed by Maul that shows where he got his techniques, that would explain everything.
Again, I'm not calling him out, because I believe he is a great practitioner, I just want to know where he got his techniques from. He does show some stuff that looks like Mande Muda, or better yet, Sunda style silat.


#16 Sanduko

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 01:35 PM

QUOTE (Karl @ Nov 5 2009, 07:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (RedBagani @ Nov 5 2009, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, that rhythm can throw off an opponent's. It is something one acquires through training. Any reason to believe that only the de Thours know how to do this?



I dont think so.....I was chating with him a couple of years ago when he was introducing his style of Silat and he allways say and told me that it is "his family style" passed to him by his Grandfather...
I believe him....



I know some of FMA instructors here in the States that call their art "family style". When in actual, its a melting pot of techniques from a ton of different styles to which they were never certified to teach.


#17 Raul

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 02:15 PM

QUOTE (Sanduko @ Nov 5 2009, 08:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Karl @ Nov 5 2009, 07:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (RedBagani @ Nov 5 2009, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, that rhythm can throw off an opponent's. It is something one acquires through training. Any reason to believe that only the de Thours know how to do this?



I dont think so.....I was chating with him a couple of years ago when he was introducing his style of Silat and he allways say and told me that it is "his family style" passed to him by his Grandfather...
I believe him....



I know some of FMA instructors here in the States that call their art "family style". When in actual, its a melting pot of techniques from a ton of different styles to which they were never certified to teach.

That's a classic! Any guy who claims his art as a family art passed on to him by his grandpa must be a suspect. How can you trust a guy who's the only one who knows "the family art"?
In Luneta, there's a running joke that if you have a technique or method with questionable origin, just say it came from your "lolo" and that settles it.
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#18 Lulod

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 03:37 PM

QUOTE (Sanduko @ Nov 5 2009, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Karl @ Nov 5 2009, 07:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (RedBagani @ Nov 5 2009, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, that rhythm can throw off an opponent's. It is something one acquires through training. Any reason to believe that only the de Thours know how to do this?



I dont think so.....I was chating with him a couple of years ago when he was introducing his style of Silat and he allways say and told me that it is "his family style" passed to him by his Grandfather...
I believe him....



I know some of FMA instructors here in the States that call their art "family style". When in actual, its a melting pot of techniques from a ton of different styles to which they were never certified to teach.


Same as big "modern" fma styles in the Philipines.
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#19 Sanduko

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 04:42 PM

QUOTE (Lulod @ Nov 5 2009, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Same as big "modern" fma styles in the Philipines.


smile.gif


#20 tim_stl

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 10:24 PM

QUOTE (Sanduko @ Nov 4 2009, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (RedBagani @ Nov 3 2009, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Something about the way he keeps his body upright and the way he steps and knees tells me he is doing real Silat/Kuntau, and not just a self-taught system ripped off from fma. I am not sure if it is accurate to call it "traditional".


The upright posture, entries, elbows and knees are text book Serak/Bukti Negara/Kuntao Silat from the deThouars family. The robotic nature of the rhythym is also the deThouars flair.


i agree that the way he moves is very similar to the dethouars.  i have seen serak from lineages other than the dethouars, and they don't move that way.  not to say that no one else has that flavor of movement, but combined with the posture and technique, it screams 'dethouars.'



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#21 datoq

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:01 AM

his knife-work. any observation?

#22 Raul

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE (datoq @ Nov 6 2009, 03:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
his knife-work. any observation?

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#23 Sanduko

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 01:34 PM

QUOTE (datoq @ Nov 6 2009, 02:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
his knife-work. any observation?


As Raul stated, JKD/PTK with a bunch of Sayoc thrown in....

#24 AK-47

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 05:45 PM

QUOTE (Raul @ Nov 5 2009, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's a classic! Any guy who claims his art as a family art passed on to him by his grandpa must be a suspect. How can you trust a guy who's the only one who knows "the family art"?
In Luneta, there's a running joke that if you have a technique or method with questionable origin, just say it came from your "lolo" and that settles it.



One variant is: 'I learned my art from my lolo who was in the bolo bataillon', that's a classical one with the filams . I actually chanced one day at Luneta in the chinese garden with the  guys who made the fake LSAI tape, it happened they were giving money to one GM  laugh.gif  and received certificates that day (black belt in less than 3 weeks).... they  told me they learned kuntao from their lolo who learned it in turn while in the bolo batalion  laugh.gif  .....
I have come across many many secrets in martial arts over the years.  They are all very different but they all have one major thing in common.  They are all very very simple.  The only real secret is that you have to practise your “secret” every day before it delivers the results.

#25 Raul

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 06:59 PM

QUOTE (AK-47 @ Nov 6 2009, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Raul @ Nov 5 2009, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's a classic! Any guy who claims his art as a family art passed on to him by his grandpa must be a suspect. How can you trust a guy who's the only one who knows "the family art"?
In Luneta, there's a running joke that if you have a technique or method with questionable origin, just say it came from your "lolo" and that settles it.



One variant is: 'I learned my art from my lolo who was in the bolo bataillon', that's a classical one with the filams . I actually chanced one day at Luneta in the chinese garden with the  guys who made the fake LSAI tape, it happened they were giving money to one GM  laugh.gif  and received certificates that day (black belt in less than 3 weeks).... they  told me they learned kuntao from their lolo who learned it in turn while in the bolo batalion  laugh.gif  .....

Is the guy by any chance, a new yorker?
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#26 AK-47

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 07:24 PM

QUOTE (Raul @ Nov 6 2009, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (AK-47 @ Nov 6 2009, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Raul @ Nov 5 2009, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's a classic! Any guy who claims his art as a family art passed on to him by his grandpa must be a suspect. How can you trust a guy who's the only one who knows "the family art"?
In Luneta, there's a running joke that if you have a technique or method with questionable origin, just say it came from your "lolo" and that settles it.



One variant is: 'I learned my art from my lolo who was in the bolo bataillon', that's a classical one with the filams . I actually chanced one day at Luneta in the chinese garden with the  guys who made the fake LSAI tape, it happened they were giving money to one GM  laugh.gif  and received certificates that day (black belt in less than 3 weeks).... they  told me they learned kuntao from their lolo who learned it in turn while in the bolo batalion  laugh.gif  .....

Is the guy by any chance, a new yorker?


Could be, sounds familiar, NY or New Jersey ....  they did not show me their 'family' kuntao although I was in silat and  very curious about it having seen none before ...
I have come across many many secrets in martial arts over the years.  They are all very different but they all have one major thing in common.  They are all very very simple.  The only real secret is that you have to practise your “secret” every day before it delivers the results.

#27 RedBagani

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 12:05 AM

QUOTE (Sanduko @ Nov 5 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you can show me a video of a different style that has the same movements and rhythm, I will change my opinion of Maul.

I am not in the habit of collecting or viewing videos, so no I can't show you any or even link you to one. I won't even try to make you change your mind. Like you, I am curious where Maul got his techniques. Brunei is such a small place unknown to many so I don't believe there are any experts here who can say what is or what is not from Brunei.

If Maul studied under a legit Serak instructor, someone out there should be able to prove it eventually based on membership records or face recognition. Until that 'witness' steps up and positively identifies Maul as a Serak (ex?)student, lack of evidence is no proof at all.

Anyway, if Maul got many of his moves from Serak (Serah?), I'd say now that Serak is a great style.

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#28 Sanduko

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 01:15 PM

QUOTE (RedBagani @ Nov 7 2009, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Sanduko @ Nov 5 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you can show me a video of a different style that has the same movements and rhythm, I will change my opinion of Maul.

I am not in the habit of collecting or viewing videos, so no I can't show you any or even link you to one. I won't even try to make you change your mind. Like you, I am curious where Maul got his techniques. Brunei is such a small place unknown to many so I don't believe there are any experts here who can say what is or what is not from Brunei.

If Maul studied under a legit Serak instructor, someone out there should be able to prove it eventually based on membership records or face recognition. Until that 'witness' steps up and positively identifies Maul as a Serak (ex?)student, lack of evidence is no proof at all.

Anyway, if Maul got many of his moves from Serak (Serah?), I'd say now that Serak is a great style.


RedBagani, I understand your stance on this subject.
One thing that Maul does in one of his videos, he opens the video with him doing Serak Jurus #7.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjPAKR-L3X4



#29 RedBagani

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 04:14 PM

Thanks for your reply, Sanduko. I tried to look for a link to Serak & found that there are quite a lot. Could you provide me a link  to that specific juru you were refering to? Is this specific juru a traditional "bunga" or is it found only in the deThouars system? I am trying to see if there is a common parent to both SSBD & Serak. or if Serak came before SSBD.

When I was in Brunei years ago, the kerambit was an illegal weapon. It was considerred a thug's weapon that originated from a woman's self-defense weapon. The kerambit was considered Indonesian in origin, as far as i can remember. It could have been adopted by the Brunei natives at one time.

I am not an expert in anthropology or ethnic studies, but I think Maul is not a common name in Brunei. Neither is the father or family (?) name a usual name. Bruneians usually do not use surnames, but a few families (such as the Malai) attach a name to their clan to identify themselves. I am speculating that Maul may have some Indonesian roots, but then he makes no mention of that so I am very open to the idea that my speculation is dead wrong.

Once again, I regard Maul as an expert in his own craft. He is intriguing and his empty hand art is one of the finest I have seen.
May all beings, human & non-human, visible & invisible, be happy, peaceful & liberated!

#30 torqui

torqui

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 09:23 PM

QUOTE (RedBagani @ Nov 10 2009, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Once again, I regard Maul as an expert in his own craft. He is intriguing and his empty hand art is one of the finest I have seen.


Yeah. I find his empty hand art very interesting and most enjoyable to watch. I'd hate to be on the receiving end of those moves!