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#1 Karl

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 03:09 PM

From what I read, the Kerambit comes form many place in South East Asia includying the Philippines..Is that true?
Is the Kerambit or was it used as a tool before in the Philippines and if yes how was called??? I know there might come diferent names because of the different languages...
Or is more a modern knife that was introduce later???
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#2 nosyac

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 03:35 PM

QUOTE (Karl @ Feb 18 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From what I read, the Kerambit comes form many place in South East Asia includying the Philippines..Is that true?
Is the Kerambit or was it used as a tool before in the Philippines and if yes how was called??? I know there might come diferent names because of the different languages...
Or is more a modern knife that was introduce later???

I think there are different spelling or pronunciation of the word but what I know it's called "KARAMBIT".  I also read that the "tool" by history is native to Malaysia and Philippines... don't know who came with it or where it originally came from.  Maybe some of the members here can give us info.

Here's a a good reading of Karambit History.  Give or take, it's your decision to believe in wiki.

#3 Karl

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 04:56 PM

QUOTE (nosyac @ Feb 18 2010, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Karl @ Feb 18 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From what I read, the Kerambit comes form many place in South East Asia includying the Philippines..Is that true?
Is the Kerambit or was it used as a tool before in the Philippines and if yes how was called??? I know there might come diferent names because of the different languages...
Or is more a modern knife that was introduce later???

I think there are different spelling or pronunciation of the word but what I know it's called "KARAMBIT".  I also read that the "tool" by history is native to Malaysia and Philippines... don't know who came with it or where it originally came from.  Maybe some of the members here can give us info.

Here's a a good reading of Karambit History.  Give or take, it's your decision to believe in wiki.


Thanks Nosyac, I know that link and I dont believe all whats written im Wiki.....I would prefer more inputs from people living there.
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#4 AK-47

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 06:04 PM

QUOTE (Karl @ Feb 18 2010, 04:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From what I read, the Kerambit comes form many place in South East Asia includying the Philippines..Is that true?
Is the Kerambit or was it used as a tool before in the Philippines and if yes how was called??? I know there might come diferent names because of the different languages...
Or is more a modern knife that was introduce later???


That's a good question I was about to ask. Maybe our bangsamoro brothers could also tell if they use it ... perhaps they brought it from Indonesia.
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#5 torqui

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 06:28 PM

I haven't heard of any kerambit/karambit in the Philippines. The nearest thing to a kerambit in the Philippines that I know of is the sanggot. But the sanggot is not a weapon. It is a utility blade used by the mananggete (mananguete?), a professional coconut wine (tuba) maker. Of course the sanggot can be used to kill someone just as a kitchen knife, icepick or sickle can.

From my observation, what the kerambit and sanggot have in common is the curved, concave blade and the curved handle. From what I've seen, The sanggot has a much longer and definitely wider blade than the kerambit. A kerambit may be hidden in your pocket but a sanggot surely cannot. And the sanggot also does not have that ring at the butt of its handle like of the kerambit but has a curved butt (like a saber's) to prevent slipping.

#6 Karl

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 07:17 PM

QUOTE (torqui @ Feb 18 2010, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I haven't heard of any kerambit/karambit in the Philippines. The nearest thing to a kerambit in the Philippines that I know of is the sanggot. But the sanggot is not a weapon. It is a utility blade used by the mananggete (mananguete?), a professional coconut wine (tuba) maker. Of course the sanggot can be used to kill someone just as a kitchen knife, icepick or sickle can.

From my observation, what the kerambit and sanggot have in common is the curved, concave blade and the curved handle. From what I've seen, The sanggot has a much longer and definitely wider blade than the kerambit. A kerambit may be hidden in your pocket but a sanggot surely cannot. And the sanggot also does not have that ring at the butt of its handle like of the kerambit but has a curved butt (like a saber's) to prevent slipping.


Thanks Torqui, I saw one Sanggot at Irri in UP Los baños in the museum, I was trying to remember the name today...And as you say it was  displayed together with other tools (not weapons)..
Someone who is selling some weapons call the Kerambit form the Philippines "Lihok" did you ever listen that name???
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#7 torqui

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 09:17 PM

QUOTE (Karl @ Feb 19 2010, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (torqui @ Feb 18 2010, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I haven't heard of any kerambit/karambit in the Philippines. The nearest thing to a kerambit in the Philippines that I know of is the sanggot. But the sanggot is not a weapon. It is a utility blade used by the mananggete (mananguete?), a professional coconut wine (tuba) maker. Of course the sanggot can be used to kill someone just as a kitchen knife, icepick or sickle can.

From my observation, what the kerambit and sanggot have in common is the curved, concave blade and the curved handle. From what I've seen, The sanggot has a much longer and definitely wider blade than the kerambit. A kerambit may be hidden in your pocket but a sanggot surely cannot. And the sanggot also does not have that ring at the butt of its handle like of the kerambit but has a curved butt (like a saber's) to prevent slipping.


Thanks Torqui, I saw one Sanggot at Irri in UP Los baños in the museum, I was trying to remember the name today...And as you say it was  displayed together with other tools (not weapons)..
Someone who is selling some weapons call the Kerambit form the Philippines "Lihok" did you ever listen that name???


As far as I know, "lihok" means "movement", "motion" or "action". Never heard of "lihok" as any kind of weapon.

Incidentally, the size of sanggot seems to vary from region to region. Where I come from in the Visayas, sanggots are perhaps 8"-10" overall length. While there are sanggots in other parts of the Philippines that are long enough to be classified as a normal sickle with overall lengths of maybe 18"-24".But I have seen some "doubtful" sanggots being sold as weapons that already look a lot like kerambits (with ring at the butt of handle) and are of similar size too. I guess if they call it a kerambit, people will think its better to buy one from Indonesia. Calling it a sanggot differentiates it and makes a sale more likely I guess.

#8 Kali-bangon

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 02:20 AM

QUOTE (torqui @ Feb 18 2010, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Karl @ Feb 19 2010, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (torqui @ Feb 18 2010, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I haven't heard of any kerambit/karambit in the Philippines. The nearest thing to a kerambit in the Philippines that I know of is the sanggot. But the sanggot is not a weapon. It is a utility blade used by the mananggete (mananguete?), a professional coconut wine (tuba) maker. Of course the sanggot can be used to kill someone just as a kitchen knife, icepick or sickle can.

From my observation, what the kerambit and sanggot have in common is the curved, concave blade and the curved handle. From what I've seen, The sanggot has a much longer and definitely wider blade than the kerambit. A kerambit may be hidden in your pocket but a sanggot surely cannot. And the sanggot also does not have that ring at the butt of its handle like of the kerambit but has a curved butt (like a saber's) to prevent slipping.


Thanks Torqui, I saw one Sanggot at Irri in UP Los baños in the museum, I was trying to remember the name today...And as you say it was  displayed together with other tools (not weapons)..
Someone who is selling some weapons call the Kerambit form the Philippines "Lihok" did you ever listen that name???


As far as I know, "lihok" means "movement", "motion" or "action". Never heard of "lihok" as any kind of weapon.

Incidentally, the size of sanggot seems to vary from region to region. Where I come from in the Visayas, sanggots are perhaps 8"-10" overall length. While there are sanggots in other parts of the Philippines that are long enough to be classified as a normal sickle with overall lengths of maybe 18"-24".But I have seen some "doubtful" sanggots being sold as weapons that already look a lot like kerambits (with ring at the butt of handle) and are of similar size too. I guess if they call it a kerambit, people will think its better to buy one from Indonesia. Calling it a sanggot differentiates it and makes a sale more likely I guess.

The only Sanggot I'm familiar with are those used by Coconut farmers in rural areas. They use this utility blade to cut coconuts down from a tree, pick them up to sort em and open the husks. I used one when I was assigned to a rural town in Cagayan de Oro as part of my immersion at Xavier University and it's a bit tricky using them because of the reverse curve of the blade, you tend to use the pointed tip to hit the coconut instead of the blade's curved edge if you're not used to it. As for the Kerambit, I have always associated it with Silat arts from Malaysia and Indonesia. Though since there are also Filipino silat arts, I assume they also use a local version of the Kerambit in Mindanao. But I've never heard of a Kerambit or any version of it coming from the Visayas or Luzon, but then maybe some have found their way there from Mindanao, I don't know. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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#9 nosyac

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 04:02 PM

The people I know who uses this is called "mananggiti" or "mananggot" - which refer to farmers that picks coconuts and "tuba".  I have a classmate that has a coconut farm in Mindanao that their "sa-op" shapens the sanggot everyday. Also, they vary sizes.  Some longer ones and some are shorter ones... maybe that's where the "karambit" got it's name because the shorte ones are no longer called sanggot.

#10 Sitbatan

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 07:27 AM

Kerambit is a traditional silat weapon.  if we got some some pesilat (silat practitioners) native to the Philippines then i'd say yes, it would be included in the FMA, but i haven't crossed that information anywhere as of yet.  I'd have to say for now from what i know it isn't... but let the search continue..
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#11 Mangtas

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 01:36 AM

By the way where is Sanggot? (Cebuano ..sangot)
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#12 soulguru

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 08:55 AM

nice Kilat; kerambit usage is more emphasized in malaysia/indonesia/brunei; as it is, one sees it being used during 'pangalay' sessions, fancy forms practices, etc.  its relatively more of a 'defensive/bkup' tool, coz sa true lang, mejo maliit eh... Moro fighters down south are more straightforwrd compared to their other silat brethren, thus more of the small kris/pisau type of blades are preferred (along w/ larger ones, of course...); sympre, a kerambit is still a blade, and utilised- sans the fancy stuff tho, in terms of offensive/deffensive movements...  
QUOTE (Kilat Serrada @ Feb 22 2010, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kerambit is a traditional silat weapon.  if we got some some pesilat (silat practitioners) native to the Philippines then i'd say yes, it would be included in the FMA, but i haven't crossed that information anywhere as of yet.  I'd have to say for now from what i know it isn't... but let the search continue..


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#13 Karl

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 09:13 AM

QUOTE (soulguru @ Feb 23 2010, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
nice Kilat; kerambit usage is more emphasized in malaysia/indonesia/brunei; as it is, one sees it being used during 'pangalay' sessions, fancy forms practices, etc.  its relatively more of a 'defensive/bkup' tool, coz sa true lang, mejo maliit eh... Moro fighters down south are more straightforwrd compared to their other silat brethren, thus more of the small kris/pisau type of blades are preferred (along w/ larger ones, of course...); sympre, a kerambit is still a blade, and utilised- sans the fancy stuff tho, in terms of offensive/deffensive movements...  
QUOTE (Kilat Serrada @ Feb 22 2010, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kerambit is a traditional silat weapon.  if we got some some pesilat (silat practitioners) native to the Philippines then i'd say yes, it would be included in the FMA, but i haven't crossed that information anywhere as of yet.  I'd have to say for now from what i know it isn't... but let the search continue..



So, then can we say that the Kerambit is seldom used in the south???
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#14 kabayo

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 09:14 AM

i made friends with a few silat guys here. i can say that we in the philippines have larger versions of some versions that they have. can we say that the karambit is a native weapon that we have or was this (re/)introduced(?) in the last 30 years? i do not know if the karambit word is part of the filipino dialects,but it doesnt sound so.

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#15 Karl

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 09:19 AM

QUOTE (kabayo @ Feb 23 2010, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i made friends with a few silat guys here. i can say that we in the philippines have larger versions of some versions that they have. can we say that the karambit is a native weapon that we have or was this (re/)introduced(?) in the last 30 years? i do not know if the karambit word is part of the filipino dialects,but it doesnt sound so.


I start to believe that its more known in Indonesia and maybe it comes even from there and was introduce through some people who went to teach abroad or had contact with some people abroad...
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#16 kabayo

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 09:21 AM

possible

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#17 AK-47

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 09:49 AM

QUOTE (Karl @ Feb 23 2010, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (kabayo @ Feb 23 2010, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i made friends with a few silat guys here. i can say that we in the philippines have larger versions of some versions that they have. can we say that the karambit is a native weapon that we have or was this (re/)introduced(?) in the last 30 years? i do not know if the karambit word is part of the filipino dialects,but it doesnt sound so.


I start to believe that its more known in Indonesia and maybe it comes even from there and was introduce through some people who went to teach abroad or had contact with some people abroad...


So this could mean FMA guys who are pretending their art is purely pinoy while teaching kerambit  were instead silat influenced ...

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#18 bayani

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 12:38 PM

I am familiar with some Kerambit which was shown to me as " kuku Harimau"  Tiger claw or nail which was the use of the kerambit to compliment the ground fighting we did but it was taught in stiff forms and very hard style ground fighting . IN KALI, yes KALI , as a matter of fact Pekiti Tirsia Kali in particular  wink.gif  , the Karambit was taught to me as a Curved blade - hence coming from edge weapons stand point and not animals , faster using all facets of the blade be it to puncture, lacerate, hook for control etc.  So far I enjoy this Pinoy version of the use of the Karambit compared to my Indonesian counterpart.  There is a difference in the way I learned it from Indonesia and how I learned it from the Philippines.

Tuhon taught me to focus on the attributes of the weapon based on functional human characteristics over animal forms.  From what farm tool it came from, I think it was the one that you use to cut the coconut or trim the palm trees. I am not sure what it's called in it's dialect. A functional human farm tool but by the time it made it to me..it was in a functional weapon form or modified to be a weapon.

Karambit

#19 torqui

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 08:34 PM

QUOTE (bayani @ Feb 23 2010, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am familiar with some Kerambit which was shown to me as " kuku Harimau"  Tiger claw or nail which was the use of the kerambit to compliment the ground fighting we did but it was taught in stiff forms and very hard style ground fighting . IN KALI, yes KALI , as a matter of fact Pekiti Tirsia Kali in particular  wink.gif  , the Karambit was taught to me as a Curved blade - hence coming from edge weapons stand point and not animals , faster using all facets of the blade be it to puncture, lacerate, hook for control etc.  So far I enjoy this Pinoy version of the use of the Karambit compared to my Indonesian counterpart.  There is a difference in the way I learned it from Indonesia and how I learned it from the Philippines.

Tuhon taught me to focus on the attributes of the weapon based on functional human characteristics over animal forms.  From what farm tool it came from, I think it was the one that you use to cut the coconut or trim the palm trees. I am not sure what it's called in it's dialect. A functional human farm tool but by the time it made it to me..it was in a functional weapon form or modified to be a weapon.

Karambit


Yeah. I have noticed a lot of FMA instructors adopting the kerambit into their curricula in recent years. That is a testament to the kerambit's great popularity. And since Filipinos have a talent for adopting, innovating and "Filipinizing" foreign martial ideas (Filipinos have adopted ideas from jujutsu, judo, aikido, karate, kung fu, muay thai) as well as some weapons too (ex. nunchaku), I'm not surprised at all that the kerambit is now taught from a Filipino standpoint. Its amazing that the kerambit, a weapon/tool that isn't native to the Philippines, has found its way from across the sea and has been absorbed so quickly intothe FMA.

#20 bayani

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 11:56 PM

QUOTE (torqui @ Feb 23 2010, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (bayani @ Feb 23 2010, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am familiar with some Kerambit which was shown to me as " kuku Harimau"  Tiger claw or nail which was the use of the kerambit to compliment the ground fighting we did but it was taught in stiff forms and very hard style ground fighting . IN KALI, yes KALI , as a matter of fact Pekiti Tirsia Kali in particular  wink.gif  , the Karambit was taught to me as a Curved blade - hence coming from edge weapons stand point and not animals , faster using all facets of the blade be it to puncture, lacerate, hook for control etc.  So far I enjoy this Pinoy version of the use of the Karambit compared to my Indonesian counterpart.  There is a difference in the way I learned it from Indonesia and how I learned it from the Philippines.

Tuhon taught me to focus on the attributes of the weapon based on functional human characteristics over animal forms.  From what farm tool it came from, I think it was the one that you use to cut the coconut or trim the palm trees. I am not sure what it's called in it's dialect. A functional human farm tool but by the time it made it to me..it was in a functional weapon form or modified to be a weapon.

Karambit


Yeah. I have noticed a lot of FMA instructors adopting the kerambit into their curricula in recent years. That is a testament to the kerambit's great popularity. And since Filipinos have a talent for adopting, innovating and "Filipinizing" foreign martial ideas (Filipinos have adopted ideas from jujutsu, judo, aikido, karate, kung fu, muay thai) as well as some weapons too (ex. nunchaku), I'm not surprised at all that the kerambit is now taught from a Filipino standpoint. Its amazing that the kerambit, a weapon/tool that isn't native to the Philippines, has found its way from across the sea and has been absorbed so quickly intothe FMA.


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#21 nosyac

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 04:05 AM

I find the flow and finesse when fma'ers do the karambit.

#22 Raul

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 04:16 AM

It should be. Just like the great professor said, "That's why its called modern, arnis is no longer tied to the past and its antiquated weapons but can adapt and translate to any art and weapon tactics." The stick is not just another weapon but a cathartic tool to discover and explore immense potentials and endless possibilities.
Btw, the tagalogs have bigger picking tool shaped like sanggot called "panungkit".
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#23 nosyac

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 03:11 PM

In bisaya, we call it "pangkuhit". Farmers use "sanggot" and tied it at the tip of a long pole.

#24 Mangtas

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 03:37 PM

Thats right ndong nosyac..pangkuhit sa Cebuano. Sanggot bitaw na noh?
While in Iloilo I heard them call it garab if without the long pole attachment.
My Tagalog uncle calls sit karit.

my 2 cents


#25 RedBagani

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 01:31 AM

QUOTE (soulguru @ Feb 23 2010, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...kerambit usage is more emphasized in malaysia/indonesia/brunei;...

The kerambit, as a martial art weapon, isn't indigenous to Brunei. It was also called the Tiger Claw knife, and was acknowledged to originate from Indonesia. I grew up in Brunei and as a Scout, I often carried a knife with me, and the police never bothered me. I also saw tribesmen bring their mandau or parang to town when they did trade and they too were not harrasssed by the authorities. Outside urban areas, it was common to see people carrying long blades or knives. The kerambit, however, was notorious as a criminal's weapon. It was an illegal weapon, unlike the kris or parang, which could be displayed in public. I don't remember seeing martial art displays using the kerambit. I think anyone displaying a kerambit would have been immediately arrested.

I believe that the kerambit, as a martial art weapon, is Indonesian in origin.


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#26 nosyac

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 07:36 PM

I think JKD guys ID the karambit as tiger claw knife...

#27 bayani

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 08:43 PM

I look at it as the Feral claw blade of death! Bwahahahahah....ok just as a curved blade.

#28 torqui

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 09:32 PM

Aside from the usual sickle, below is a photo of another bladed implement used in the Philippines to harvest rice. I think the kerambit may have served the same purpose in Indonesia as this implement from the Philippines - allowing one hand to grasp a bunch of rice stalks and cut them all in one motion.



#29 bayani

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 11:17 PM

THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS |I WAS TOLD ABOUT ! in line with farm tools and local tools  as weapons !! what do you call this? I have been looking for this tool and everytime I go home I never could find it. We developed crude weapons from "Tari" or cockfighting spurs into  weapon rings < trumpo tali with the tansan as a weapon , indina pana  and other weapons all coming from our local areas.

#30 kabayo

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 12:53 AM

i was told that the kerambit was originally used to clean fish

yihaaaaa! tigidig!!!!!!! tigidig!!!!!!



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