FMA BULLSHIDO LIST, this is to shed some light on the BS!! Options

[Sitbatan]

Bullshido FMA:

Stories of high Bullsh!T about FMA that needs to be flushed and buried!!

First up.... Blind Princess .... truth or BULLSH!T???

Lets get ready to TABO this....

[Lulod]

whoah-hoh! This is gonna get interesting. Fire away!

[jerry]

I might opt for "legend", as opposed to "BS", which is maybe too inflammatory. Much of what one reads in Chinese martial arts, even in their written tradition, is probably embellished "folklore" more than truth. In Native American culture, with only an oral history, much is clearly mythical, moreso than real. I can't see why Filipino arts would be any different.

[Raul]

Its a legend and should be taken as such. No need to taboo it. There are more BS in FMA that can be mentioned such as origins, histories, influences, lineage, systems, heirs to secret art, etc.etc.etc.
What do you think of the story of enemies teaching you how to effectively kill them? Or able swordsmen willfully dancing before their enemies just to be able to practice their footwork? Or every old filipino who wields a blade knows how to use it or ever used it? Or every smooth stick flailing oldie is teaching a family system?

[klobkawayan]

Jerry, there is a whale of a difference between legend and b.s. Here are a few examples of B.S.

...My style is too deadly for tournaments, too many fouls we can't take part in them.
.....Our style is battle tested! We have the counter attack to all arnis styles
.....How about those instructors in chalico...they're B.S. TO ME!

[Sinyalan]

Jerry, there is a whale of a difference between legend and b.s.  Here are a few examples of B.S.

...My style is too deadly for tournaments, too many fouls we can't take part in them.
.....Our style is battle tested!  We have the counter attack to all arnis styles
.....How about those instructors in chalico...they're B.S. TO ME!

Man... I read this before... (not mentioning the site, sorry people)... I say, good advertising and too naive to say it online. Besides, there are "less" knowledgable to know the difference if it's BS of not. But.... please! Pure... Carabao %@$#!

[jerry]

I agree about the BS, but would not refer to anything at this site by the term, "bullshido". That board has come to embody the very things they claim to disparage. I had a run-in with one of the moderators on the Bullshido board once, got his personal info, and threatened off the board to run him to ground and kick his little faggot TKD ass. When he was confronted with the actual threat of physical harm, his keyboard fell silent, mainly because he was an ignorant little p#ssy motherf*cker. Sorry for the rant. Everybody on this board is cool. I never learned so much about FMA as the short time I've been visiting this site. I have a very high regard and respect for everyone who posts here. No comparison with the Bullshido board where half of the people don't know what the heck they are talking about, but just like to flame and troll anonymously from the safety of their home or office. Most of them seem to be white American martial art wannabe's who think they have a God-given right to say anything they want about anything at all or anyone just because they own a computer and live in America..

[Diego_Vega]

...  Most of them seem to be white American martial art wannabe's who think they have a God-given right to say anything they want about anything at all or anyone just because they own a computer and live in America.. 

Uhm,... bro?.... They do.

I may not agree with what anyone says but I'll defend their right to say it. (BTW, that was a paraphrase, I wouldn't actually defend "with my life" their right to say it.)

[oosh]

hehe I just feel sorry for those types, must have pretty low self esteem

[JohnJ]

re: Bullshido and other internet tough talk

Unfortunately the anonymity of the web allows for much B.S.!

re: B.S. FMA myths

How bout the DeCuerdas Cave where Eskrimadors were supposedly trained in darkness and with various elements of surprise?

[Paco]

I heard that one, even Mark Wiley (whose work i respect very much) talked about that in his first book about Cabales Serrada Escrima.
HERE ARE THE TWO BIGGESTS MYTH OF ALL TIME AND THE ONES WE NEED TO DESTROY AS FMA PRACTITIONERS:

1- "FMA GUYS CAN'T FIGHT WITHOUT A WEAPON" OR "FMA ARE JUST WEAPON ARTS"

2- "SINCE I DO FMA I DON'T NEED TO LEARN HOW TO GRAPPLE B/C A) I HAVE A WEAPON, MULTIPLE OPPONENTS"

PACO'S COROLLARY TO #2: If you can't beat ONE opponent, how do you expect to beat MULTIPLE ones?

You guys would be surprised at the number of people, both in the FMA world and outside who I hear propagate these myths in one form or another.

Let the fireworks begin!

[Junior Hinay]

re: Bullshido and other internet tough talk

Unfortunately the anonymity of the web allows for much B.S.! 

re: B.S. FMA myths

How bout the DeCuerdas Cave where Eskrimadors were supposedly trained in darkness and with various elements of surprise?

I've been to that cave, it's called Sudlon. It was once a sanctuary /hideout of Cebuano insurrectos. the only elements of surprise you can find there are bats and and occasional pythons! No telltale signs that a gauntlet type obstacle course was ever constructed in that cave. I've read about that story from someone who calls himself a Sultan!

[mother_earth]

I think the people behind Bullshido are MMA ers or MMA fans or monkeys perhaps ..I think this is the reason why they see other arts as B.S. unless they see it work in the ring.

[dyak_stone]

Whew, the dung heap just get's larger and larger.

Some branding their styles as "THE original".
Some reiterating how their GMs are "killers", or "undefeated in death matches".

I mean, even if these statements that they say are true, it just grates at my sensibilities how people get this air of elitism, just because they teach/study in their style. It just becomes obvious how these people want to grandstand themselves and their style, through hype... Just a pet peeve of mine.

Another phenomenon that I find a bit peculiar, and I think this has been mentioned by others before on this forum: how there are SOOO many grandmasters in the FMA right now. Or if it's not GM, it's some other suspicious title.

Legends, stories, titles, they're all cool. But I think it crosses the line when these things get used as hype.

[duende2005]

I agree about the BS, but would not refer to anything at this site by the term, "bullshido".  That board has come to embody the very things they claim to disparage.  I had a run-in with one of the moderators on the Bullshido board once, got his personal info, and threatened off the board to run him to ground and kick his little faggot TKD ass.  When he was confronted with the actual threat of physical harm, his keyboard fell silent, mainly because he was an ignorant little p#ssy motherf*cker.   Sorry for the rant.  Everybody on this board is cool.  I never learned so much about FMA as the short time I've been visiting this site.  I have a very high regard and respect for everyone who posts here.  No comparison with the Bullshido board where half of the people  don't know what the heck they are talking about, but just like to flame and troll anonymously from the safety of their home or office.  Most of them seem to be white American martial art wannabe's who think they have a God-given right to say anything they want about anything at all or anyone just because they own a computer and live in America..  

Whoa. That's a goddamn terrific, fantastic rant...especially this part:

I had a run-in with one of the moderators on the Bullshido board once, got his personal info, and threatened off the board to run him to ground and kick his little faggot TKD ass.  When he was confronted with the actual threat of physical harm, his keyboard fell silent, mainly because he was an ignorant little p#ssy motherf*cker.

I wish I could send off a barrage like that when it's handy, like when this idiot drunk nearly puked on me during a commute.

[jerry]

Er.....sorry, fellers.....

[malapitan]

I agree about the BS, but would not refer to anything at this site by the term, "bullshido".  That board has come to embody the very things they claim to disparage.  I had a run-in with one of the moderators on the Bullshido board once, got his personal info, and threatened off the board to run him to ground and kick his little faggot TKD ass.  When he was confronted with the actual threat of physical harm, his keyboard fell silent, mainly because he was an ignorant little p#ssy motherf*cker.  Sorry for the rant.  Everybody on this board is cool.  I never learned so much about FMA as the short time I've been visiting this site.  I have a very high regard and respect for everyone who posts here.  No comparison with the Bullshido board where half of the people  don't know what the heck they are talking about, but just like to flame and troll anonymously from the safety of their home or office.  Most of them seem to be white American martial art wannabe's who think they have a God-given right to say anything they want about anything at all or anyone just because they own a computer and live in America.. 

I couldn't agree with you more. Bullshido.com is trollville. The site meant well and should stick to what it was designed for. But the trolls are allowed to bash any system, any instructor without the benefit of knowing what the system is about and the instructor in question. There are nuggest of information around that site but you need to swim through the oceans of feces just to find them. It's really up to you if it's worth finding them.

I'm particularly offended by this (from Bullshido.com)

As for FMA bullshido itself, it's easy to spot them. If you study under a legit school or teacher, you will somehow, instinctively "know" if it's BS or not. I'm not even talking about claims of lineage, etc. I don't put a lot of stock in that anyway. My goal is to learn to defend myself. The rest may or may not matter to me.

[oosh]

"I'm particularly offended by this (from Bullshido.com)"

Yup, pretty disrespectful.

[hades]

Sorry to be frank... but I don't like bullshido... I visited that site and it's full of crapezoid ideas. That's only me talking.

[Banakun]

How about the "Moslem-connection?" We have some moslem members who grew up in the Sulu-Tawi-tawi-Basilan-Zamboanga area. They say they've never seen any form of escrima there... only the Blade work of Silat. Nothing even slightly resembling FMA as we know it. I have come to the conclusion that this connection is more the product of marketing... the more exotic the art, the more marketable. Even GM Ilustrisimo's teacher in Sulu wasn't Moslem as far as I know.


Then there's the "dancing around the campfire feeling the warrior spirit" stuff. Foreigners just love these legends, funky names and funky wear, and funky practices.

Then there's the " I know FMA" when all they know is a couple of Sinawali patterns... We met some US Special Forces who said they had one team member who was an "expert" in FMA... all he could do was the Sinawali... and it wasn't even good...

Then there are the names... my God... some guys asking us what we called our footwork to which we answered "shift". Apparently, they were thinking we had some funky name for it... like "circular footwork of the dance of fire" or something like that...

Then there are culturally inappropriate "titles"... indigent people groups get irked when someone... especially a white guy... walks around carrying the title of "Datu." These titles they don't just give to anyone...and in the context of the PI, it's so absurd... it's like giving an Aikido practitioner the title of "Daimyo" or "Shogun."

The absurdity of it all just keeps going on and on...

[Junior Hinay]

How about the "Moslem-connection?"  We have some moslem members who grew up in the Sulu-Tawi-tawi-Basilan-Zamboanga area.  They say they've never seen any form of escrima there... only the Blade work of Silat.

CORRECT... there's a whale of a difference between silat kuntao and escrima/ arnis. Silat is indigenous to the Yakan tribes in Basilan. I've spent half of my life travelling from the fringes of BUDA (Bukidnon Davao Cotabato, from Siasi, Jolo, Lamitan, Basilan, Ipil, Margosatubig,Marawi, Siocon, Siraway, etc.) I have not seen a living breathing kali moro grandmaster!

Nothing even slightly resembling FMA as we know it.  I have come to the conclusion that this connection is more the product of marketing... the more exotic the art, the more marketable.  Even GM Ilustrisimo's teacher in Sulu wasn't Moslem as far as I know. 

Manoy Tonyo Ilustrisimo's Mindanao eskrima teacher was Pedro Cortes of Guindulman, Bohol BISDAK (Bisayang Dako). He practices the Repikada Pegada eskrima that traces its roots to the one time nemesis of the Moro pirates...Solferino "Kapitan" Perong Pak-an Borinaga of Pilar, Camotes.

Then there's the "dancing around the campfire feeling the warrior spirit" stuff.  Foreigners just love these legends, funky names and funky wear, and funky practices.

... and there's also that eskrimadora in dressed as Moro singkil princess romping around silly without due respects to the CEBUANO ROOTS OF HER FMA. THAT IS SACRILIGEOUS TO US BISAYA!
...in case she too insensitive about that.... and that is something a lot of us here are willing to KILL and DIE for!

[Sitbatan]

Like I said before Eskrima and Silat are the Old school Arch-enemies.... each having the counter for the other's techniques and strategy.

I'm glad it's 2006 and people can study / practice both arts....

[Junior Hinay]

Like I said before Eskrima and Silat are the Old school Arch-enemies....  each having the counter for the other's techniques and strategy.

I'm glad it's 2006 and people can study / practice both arts....

Sakto! nailed it Kilat Serrada!

[Hierophant]

I read in a glossy fashion magazine an article about "Kali". It said there that Kali was practiced by villagers, and was taught to them within a period of usually around 3 days, right after the masts of foreign invading ships or galleons would be seen over the horizon."

Uh, I know Filipino history, and this has no factual basis.

I also don't like it when arnis/escrima is LUMPED WITH silat, either with a dash (Kali-Silat) or a slash (Kali/Silat). Don't get me wrong, though. Silat complements arnis/escrima very well, as we can see in the Arnis Defense Silat system of GM Freddie Fernandez, as well as in Pekiti Tirsia kali, and of course other styles where the Silat influence is due to the system founder actually training in silat and incorporating the stuff into his arnis/escrima. Somehow, the GENERIC lumping of FMA with Silat betrays a belief that Silat and a 'mother art' called Kali are related and were in fact one before the Spaniards arrived.

It's culturally inaccurate to practice FMA forms or routines or to do carenza to the tune of kulintang (gamelan) gongs, in the same way that the Muslim-inspired garb doesn't make sense.

[Sitbatan]

I read in a glossy fashion magazine an article about "Kali". It said there that Kali was practiced by villagers, and was taught to them within a period of usually around 3 days, right after the masts of foreign invading ships or galleons would be seen over the horizon."

Uh, I know Filipino history, and this has no factual basis.

I also don't like it when arnis/escrima is LUMPED WITH silat, either with a dash (Kali-Silat) or a slash (Kali/Silat). Don't get me wrong, though. Silat complements arnis/escrima very well, as we can see in the Arnis Defense Silat system of GM Freddie Fernandez, as well as in Pekiti Tirsia kali, and of course other styles where the Silat influence is due to the system founder actually training in silat and incorporating the stuff into his arnis/escrima. Somehow, the GENERIC lumping of FMA with Silat betrays a belief that Silat and a 'mother art' called Kali are related and were in fact one before the Spaniards arrived.

It's culturally inaccurate to practice FMA forms or routines or to do carenza to the tune of kulintang (gamelan) gongs, in the same way that the Muslim-inspired garb doesn't make sense.

I agree

I read a book once called FMA something, something and it mentioned the Filipino weapons.... kerambit and Sarong... way off! That's a slap in the face to Silat practioners around the world. FMA is well off culturally and funtionally to be as low as to "bite" / copy other arts.

In other words.... hindi naman natin kailangan gumaya sa iba!! Matindi na FMA!!

[Hierophant]

Amen, Kilat Serrada. I know your arnis style incorporates silat and is all the better for it.

The kerambit and sarong are not arnis/escrima weapons. Unless they are part of the repertoire of Filipino silat styles (e.g., Silat Saudara, Silat Asli, Silaga, etc.) then we shouldn't consider them FMA weapons. Arnis/Escrima and Silat and Yaw-Yan make up the BROADER definition of FMA.

I now wince whenever I see the cover of guro Dan Inosanto's FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS. But we can't blame him and the Fil-Am escrimadors--they were simply trying to revive cultural pride and identity. But now that FMA is an established and respected part of martial arts worldwide, we can now disregard and should in fact get rid of the hype surrounding FMA--without of course disparaging the great men like Guro Dan who with all their best intentions simply did what they could for FMA.

So what I do is point out to friends who see the same book cover that arnis/escrima players don't wear those vests and wield krises in doble baston fashion. And that actually the kris and the vests are not part of arnis/escrima but that in the 1970s there was simply a resurgence of Filipino pride and identity, which seized on the Moro motif for such purpose only because it was the most available and inspiring. (I mean hey, as a Filipino, would you be inspired by images of men in white long sleeves or undershirts or long-sleeved floral shirts and wearing red pants rolled up to the knee?)

[Raul]

Kali as presented by many is definitely a bulok shit ito.

But Guro Dan will remain a respected icon of FMA. He had done great things for FMA except for that "mather fucked martial fart" concept.

I consider him the Father of Kali... and I mean it well.

Who do you consider the mother?

[klobkawayan]

Kali as presented by many is definitely a bulok shit ito.

But Guro Dan will remain a respected icon of FMA. He had done great things for FMA except for that "mather fucked martial fart" concept.

I consider him the Father of Kali... and I mean it well.

Who do you consider the mother?

Tama ka 'pring!! kudos to Dan.....pero palagay ko ang ermat ng kali wuz d d blind princess Josefina? or maybe Padme a.k.a Queen Amidala or Princess Lea?

[bahad_zu'bu]

........are'nt our Moslem brothers in the south Filipino too?....or do you not consider them as Filipino?......Filipino silat is not part of Filipino martial arts?
are'nt they both FILIPINO?

so what then is Filipino Martial Arts?

[torqui]

........are'nt our Moslem brothers in the south Filipino too?....or do you not consider them as Filipino?......Filipino silat is not part of Filipino martial arts?
are'nt they both FILIPINO?

I guess it depends on one's perspective. Some sectors in the South may consider themselves Filipino only as far as nationality is concerned but not in terms of culture. In fact, some sectors feel they had no choice in the matter of being part of the Philippines and so don't conside themselves Filipino at all. Coming from that perspective, I guess the Silat practiced by those people would not be called "Filipino" by them.

I think it would really be more appropriate to just attribute the styles/systems to the tribe, group, family or region that practices them.

I think it was back in the 50's that Malaysia was formed (Singapore was originally supposed to be part of Malaysia) by the unification of various states in the region. And I think the Philippines was invited to be part of the great Malaysian union. Well, I guess we declined the offer. But if we did join (or do join in the future), our martial arts (escrima, kuntaw, silat, etc) would be described as "Malaysian" wouldn't they?