Jerry, there is a whale of a difference between legend and b.s.  Here are a few examples of B.S.

...My style is too deadly for tournaments, too many fouls we can't take part in them.
.....Our style is battle tested!  We have the counter attack to all arnis styles
.....How about those instructors in chalico...they're B.S. TO ME!

...  Most of them seem to be white American martial art wannabe's who think they have a God-given right to say anything they want about anything at all or anyone just because they own a computer and live in America.. 

re: Bullshido and other internet tough talk

Unfortunately the anonymity of the web allows for much B.S.! 

re: B.S. FMA myths

How bout the DeCuerdas Cave where Eskrimadors were supposedly trained in darkness and with various elements of surprise?

I agree about the BS, but would not refer to anything at this site by the term, "bullshido".  That board has come to embody the very things they claim to disparage.  I had a run-in with one of the moderators on the Bullshido board once, got his personal info, and threatened off the board to run him to ground and kick his little faggot TKD ass.  When he was confronted with the actual threat of physical harm, his keyboard fell silent, mainly because he was an ignorant little p#ssy motherf*cker.   Sorry for the rant.  Everybody on this board is cool.  I never learned so much about FMA as the short time I've been visiting this site.  I have a very high regard and respect for everyone who posts here.  No comparison with the Bullshido board where half of the people  don't know what the heck they are talking about, but just like to flame and troll anonymously from the safety of their home or office.  Most of them seem to be white American martial art wannabe's who think they have a God-given right to say anything they want about anything at all or anyone just because they own a computer and live in America..  

I had a run-in with one of the moderators on the Bullshido board once, got his personal info, and threatened off the board to run him to ground and kick his little faggot TKD ass.  When he was confronted with the actual threat of physical harm, his keyboard fell silent, mainly because he was an ignorant little p#ssy motherf*cker.

I agree about the BS, but would not refer to anything at this site by the term, "bullshido".  That board has come to embody the very things they claim to disparage.  I had a run-in with one of the moderators on the Bullshido board once, got his personal info, and threatened off the board to run him to ground and kick his little faggot TKD ass.  When he was confronted with the actual threat of physical harm, his keyboard fell silent, mainly because he was an ignorant little p#ssy motherf*cker.  Sorry for the rant.  Everybody on this board is cool.  I never learned so much about FMA as the short time I've been visiting this site.  I have a very high regard and respect for everyone who posts here.  No comparison with the Bullshido board where half of the people  don't know what the heck they are talking about, but just like to flame and troll anonymously from the safety of their home or office.  Most of them seem to be white American martial art wannabe's who think they have a God-given right to say anything they want about anything at all or anyone just because they own a computer and live in America.. 

How about the "Moslem-connection?"  We have some moslem members who grew up in the Sulu-Tawi-tawi-Basilan-Zamboanga area.  They say they've never seen any form of escrima there... only the Blade work of Silat.

Nothing even slightly resembling FMA as we know it.  I have come to the conclusion that this connection is more the product of marketing... the more exotic the art, the more marketable.  Even GM Ilustrisimo's teacher in Sulu wasn't Moslem as far as I know. 

Then there's the "dancing around the campfire feeling the warrior spirit" stuff.  Foreigners just love these legends, funky names and funky wear, and funky practices.

Like I said before Eskrima and Silat are the Old school Arch-enemies....  each having the counter for the other's techniques and strategy.

I'm glad it's 2006 and people can study / practice both arts....

I read in a glossy fashion magazine an article about "Kali". It said there that Kali was practiced by villagers, and was taught to them within a period of usually around 3 days, right after the masts of foreign invading ships or galleons would be seen over the horizon."

Uh, I know Filipino history, and this has no factual basis.

I also don't like it when arnis/escrima is LUMPED WITH silat, either with a dash (Kali-Silat) or a slash (Kali/Silat). Don't get me wrong, though. Silat complements arnis/escrima very well, as we can see in the Arnis Defense Silat system of GM Freddie Fernandez, as well as in Pekiti Tirsia kali, and of course other styles where the Silat influence is due to the system founder actually training in silat and incorporating the stuff into his arnis/escrima. Somehow, the GENERIC lumping of FMA with Silat betrays a belief that Silat and a 'mother art' called Kali are related and were in fact one before the Spaniards arrived.

It's culturally inaccurate to practice FMA forms or routines or to do carenza to the tune of kulintang (gamelan) gongs, in the same way that the Muslim-inspired garb doesn't make sense.

Kali as presented by many is definitely a bulok shit ito.

But Guro Dan will remain a respected icon of FMA. He had done great things for FMA except for that "mather fucked martial fart" concept.

I consider him the Father of Kali... and I mean it well.

Who do you consider the mother?

........are'nt our Moslem brothers in the south Filipino too?....or do you not consider them as Filipino?......Filipino silat is not part of Filipino martial arts?
are'nt they both FILIPINO?

... But if we did join (or do join in the future), our martial arts (escrima, kuntaw, silat, etc) would be described as "Malaysian" wouldn't they?....
...

The first Filipinos were not even natives of the islands but spaniards born here. So Filipino Martial Arts could be actually Spanish Martial Arts?

I mean is Combat Aikido also FMA too?

......to some then, FMA would be politically incorrect...

Oh...My...God. Please tell me people don't think that.

Lord have mercy.... FMA is Arnis .... no need to get it twisted....

So stop jumping on the band wagon and stop bastardising the only thing we got that's Pinoy ....Arnis!!

Nov 16 2005, 11:03 PM

The MT stance has the rear heel flat on the floor, around 45 to 90 degrees with respect to the lead foot. More weight is on the rear foot. The lead foot slithers as a constant threat to deliver a teep kick (front thrust heel kick). That's their equivalent of the jab. MT's forward stepping motion resembles the Wai Khru dance, a rhythmic lead knee raise with forward stepping motions. Note that I'm talking about the native Thailand MT fighting style and not the MT of America or Europe.

YY's "handang panlaban" is very similar to the old-school boxing stance or the panantukan stance as Dan Inosanto teaches it. Body and limbs relaxed with both knees slightly bent, weight distributed evenly on both feet held slightly wider than shoulder width apart. Lead shoulder raised, chin tucked down, lead foot flat & pointed slightly inwards. The shoulders & body are a bit squared, unlike the sport boxing stance that's a bit of a side stance so as to present a smalller body target. Elbows tightly held near the ribcage, rear heel raised, hands raised above chin level. Footwork is like that of Western Boxing - shuffle steps, also similar to JKD Kickboxing. Of course, MT has infused many Western Boxing principles as well and that started in the 60's. However, the current modern MT boxing style is KO focused - each punch is delivered with a KO intention. WB is said to be more point combination oriented (according the Thailand's living legend Ajarn Apidej).

The MT stance has the hands and elbows held farther from the body, and and also much higher, hands at the eyebrow level. YY elbows while in the fighting stance are held tight, close to the body. MT's elbows are held at a 45 degree angle away from the ribs.

YY has "Bolo Punches" which are a series of hammer fist punches derived from stick or bolo strike angles. The contact point is the edge of the hand in a hammerfist and/or the blade of the forearm. Most of them are hacks. In archaic European/American boxing, these various hacks were known as the Battling Nelson, Louisville Slugger, Axe fist, Hammer fist, etc. These hacks, along with some basic trapping and tricks, constitute YY's version of what is generally known as "dirty boxing".

Of course, both YY and MT have the usual boxing punches: jab, straight rear, hook, uppercut, overhand. That, and elbow strikes.

In MT training, some strikes are chambered. There is a counter-torque preparation before a punch or kick. Some Thai fighters do that, some don't. There's also the lead switch before a kick or knee. YY style prefers little to no telegraphic preparation.

In YY, while kicking, both hands are kept high and extended forward to protect the head, keeping the elbows in to protect the body. There are prescribed hand positions for every kick. Hands are not allowed to flail away in counter-torque. Hard to do when tired with heavy gloves pulling the hands down. Instructors put special attention on teaching where to put the guard hand/s while punching, elbowing, kneeing and kicking.

YY doesn't advocate the use of force-to-force blocks, but obviously, situations do arise when hard blocks or covers need to be applied. YY defense uses parries and deflections, guiding the strike rather than slapping it away or meeting it head on. Some parries lead to a trap. "buno" is also taught.

Many YY fighters fought in Thailand under Muay Thai rules and performed well. One of the instuctors at Yaw-Yan Pasay, Badong Valdueza, is the local 2004 Muay Thai Champion. Roldan Cartajena, one of the professional fighters at YY Pasay, is a 3-time URCC Champion.

I studied in the Yaw-Yan Temples under first generation masters. Some guys who took up YY trained in YY clubs that have a more relaxed approach in teaching form and have a generic kickboxing curriculum, and thus, may have a different assessment of how different MT is from YY.

to put it bluntly....yes!  They are Filipino but could care less about Arnis like Combat Aikido too.  They are all empty hand systems that put their Martial Art first..... Arnis last.

Let's take a look:

Maharlika Kuntaw = looks like karate, master wears a hakama?
Bultong = is a native art of wrestling, long before Jose Rizal(do they consider it a martial art??  Most likely no, it's cultural)
Silat = is a Malay art (most real silat practioners in Philippines trace their roots to Malayan race, not King Felipe's subjects)
Yaw-yan = basically kick boxing, they practice arnis too as secondary to kick boxing
Tracma = kickboxing...I know I have several friends here who are in the club... they do Arnis katas based on Karate.
Mongoose = boxing / empty hand combat with special rings made of steel
Dumog and Pangamut = made by Danny Inosanto
Sarian = all around self-defense
Combat Aikido = Japs taught Pinoys, Pinoys taught pinoys.

Yes they are Filipino but none of these are Arnis based.... except maybe yaw-yan that's what i read.

Arnis is what put FMA on the MAP!!!

Arnis is what gives FMA it's identity among other Martial Arts.... otherwise we would just be another *do or *itsu...

Basically FMA is ARNIS. no disrespect to any other arts but without Arnis, FMA wouldn't be where it is now....period. Besides this is an FMA forum.... does anybody believe FMA is otherwise??